bower1
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I'm glad real cider is making it up north!
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Flyfisher
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Personally, I'm a big fan of the seasonality that local products reinforce. I like to gorge on strawberries in the summer and, much as I like them, am quite happy to see the back of them for the rest of the year. Similarly with things like blackberry and apple pies, wild game and sloe gin; eating them out of season doesn't 'feel' right somehow.
However, I don't really understand why imported strawberries (for example) should be tasteless in our winter - haven't they been grown in the same conditions as UK summer ones, just in a different place on the planet? Perhaps they are a different variety altogether, hence the different taste?
However, I don't really understand why imported strawberries (for example) should be tasteless in our winter - haven't they been grown in the same conditions as UK summer ones, just in a different place on the planet? Perhaps they are a different variety altogether, hence the different taste?
Nemesis
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I suspect they are bred for longevity and ability to be transported, not for taste, and possibly not sun ripened either.
http://www.eattheseasons.co.uk/
http://www.eattheseasons.co.uk/
bower1
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I've always assumed they were picked too early to allow transportation.
Having said that, my own raspberries and strawberries never last as long one picked as shop bought ones, so it could be varieties are chosen for storage not taste.
Having said that, my own raspberries and strawberries never last as long one picked as shop bought ones, so it could be varieties are chosen for storage not taste.
Nemesis
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Elsanta - bred for supermarkets not for taste.
Flyfisher
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So UK-grown-for-export strawbs (if there is such a thing) would be equally 'tasteless' on arrival at foreign supermarkets?
Nemesis
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Do we do that?
Or do we eat all we produce?
(I grow my own - they get eaten straight from the plant, lovely.)
Or do we eat all we produce?
(I grow my own - they get eaten straight from the plant, lovely.)
CHRIS
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I am interested to know if in the supermarkets away from East Anglia where the stock the "East Anglia" range of carrots etc they stock a similar line of local produce, ie in Herefordshire you get the Herefordshire line of carrots or spuds or in Linconshire the same?
Interesting article on Radio 5 last night by a memeber of the Soil Associaton saying that it is easier to get UK grow produce in inner cities than in many rural places in the UK, I quite agreed with some of it as the only other places apart from the big supermarkets near me (less than 5 miles - his idea not mine as it was aimed at people on minimum wage and the elderly without cars) that stock proper local produce are very expensive trendy farm shops that are double the price of the "East Anglia range of Leeks" in a certain store.
Then only other place is the Garages selling apples from NZ or peppers from Israel.
Interesting article on Radio 5 last night by a memeber of the Soil Associaton saying that it is easier to get UK grow produce in inner cities than in many rural places in the UK, I quite agreed with some of it as the only other places apart from the big supermarkets near me (less than 5 miles - his idea not mine as it was aimed at people on minimum wage and the elderly without cars) that stock proper local produce are very expensive trendy farm shops that are double the price of the "East Anglia range of Leeks" in a certain store.
Then only other place is the Garages selling apples from NZ or peppers from Israel.
Penners
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The best reason I've heard yet for using Tesco. :wink:biffvernon said:
Nemesis
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Nope, really thinking people should be wary of shopping at Tesco.
As far as local leeks - I get them very locally, like out the garden. But Waitrose sells a range of 'local' produce, although it's not extensive. Some of it comes from Yorkshire, but this isn't really a veg growing area here so possibly that's why. Carrots they sell from Scotland. Meat is more local, but that's even more local if bought from the Farmer's Market or the farm, although we don't. Eggs we buy locally, from free range happy hens. Honey comes from a local farm, although it's not been a good year for that. Cheese we buy from local or regional producers mainly and it's wonderful stuff. We buy British organic butter, and milk, and when we can we buy Cumbrian farm butter from a small farm producer. We make our own bread from locally milled flour. Using a machine it's very quick and far nicer than anything bought.
There are one or two veggie box schemes around, but again I haven't investigated them. We mostly grow our own spuds, onions, leeks, beans etc (the stuff which doesn't demand a vast amount of attention) and so have a decent supply in store for the winter. In a good year we grow plums and cook and freeze them for winter use, and apples too, which we supplement with English ones (never buy imported). I was gutted when our huge old Bramley fell down in a storm.
http://www.england-in-particular.info/orchards/o-asb.html
http://www.england-in-particular.info/orchards/o-asb3.html
Of course we buy some things which are imported - coffee and tea for example (and yes Fairtrade and organic). Trade with other countries has been a feature of life in these parts for centuries (even if some of it was a spin off from invasion by the Romans and also a by product of the slave trade) but as far as possible if there is an alternative from this country and even better local, or if it means supporting local shops, I'd rather do that than give multi national corporations with dubious ethical trading practices and which are spoiling our small towns much of my cash.
Here's a nice pic of apples courtesy of Common Ground, a charity, which has a range of intersting stuff for sale including this card:
[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]
http://www.commonground.org.uk/publications/p-index.html
http://www.commonground.org.uk/
As far as local leeks - I get them very locally, like out the garden. But Waitrose sells a range of 'local' produce, although it's not extensive. Some of it comes from Yorkshire, but this isn't really a veg growing area here so possibly that's why. Carrots they sell from Scotland. Meat is more local, but that's even more local if bought from the Farmer's Market or the farm, although we don't. Eggs we buy locally, from free range happy hens. Honey comes from a local farm, although it's not been a good year for that. Cheese we buy from local or regional producers mainly and it's wonderful stuff. We buy British organic butter, and milk, and when we can we buy Cumbrian farm butter from a small farm producer. We make our own bread from locally milled flour. Using a machine it's very quick and far nicer than anything bought.
There are one or two veggie box schemes around, but again I haven't investigated them. We mostly grow our own spuds, onions, leeks, beans etc (the stuff which doesn't demand a vast amount of attention) and so have a decent supply in store for the winter. In a good year we grow plums and cook and freeze them for winter use, and apples too, which we supplement with English ones (never buy imported). I was gutted when our huge old Bramley fell down in a storm.
http://www.england-in-particular.info/orchards/o-asb.html
http://www.england-in-particular.info/orchards/o-asb3.html
Of course we buy some things which are imported - coffee and tea for example (and yes Fairtrade and organic). Trade with other countries has been a feature of life in these parts for centuries (even if some of it was a spin off from invasion by the Romans and also a by product of the slave trade) but as far as possible if there is an alternative from this country and even better local, or if it means supporting local shops, I'd rather do that than give multi national corporations with dubious ethical trading practices and which are spoiling our small towns much of my cash.
Here's a nice pic of apples courtesy of Common Ground, a charity, which has a range of intersting stuff for sale including this card:
[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]
http://www.commonground.org.uk/publications/p-index.html
http://www.commonground.org.uk/
Nemesis
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http://www.england-in-particular.info/gateway/gw-pb03.html#greenxmas
WE WISH YOU A GREEN CHRISTMAS
The latest report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warns us to act now if we are to avoid irreversible impacts. We can all point the finger at others with larger carbon footprints than our own, but there is no excuse for not doing our bit. We must all take responsibility for our own actions. The consequences of not doing so would be catastrophic.
Why not start with Christmas - which has become an excuse for a consumer bonanza, a nightmare of frenzied shopping for gifts people don’t need or want, a time for spending money we don’t have, and for wasting excessive amounts of food.
Here are Twelve Ideas for a Post-Consumer Green Christmas
1. Spend time, not money, with your family and friends.
2. Join with your neighbours to make a community advent calendar, like Saltaire, where artists and locals will be creating another 'living advent calendar' in 24 shop and house windows which light up at dusk from December 1st:
http://www.saltairevillage.info
3. Celebrate seasonal customs: join in and support local events such as carol singing (write your own carol for your place), mumming plays, pantomimes and wassailing.
4. Celebrate winter and winter food. Make Stir-up Sunday (25th November) a family occasion with everyone helping to make the Christmas pudding. Try your farmers’ market for fresh local produce. Buy free-range meat. Look at the Soil Association’s list of organic and humanely produced food: http://www.soilassociation.org
5. Make your own Christmas food – the cake, pudding etc. Only buy just as much food as you need. Use leftovers and put final scraps out for the birds; see the RSPB web-site for advice on what to avoid:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/helpingbirds
6. Make your own or buy as many gifts as you can from your own locality; think about "Present Miles". Go for fewer, good quality, well made gifts such as books, clothes or other practical things. These are better than lots of trinkets that are likely to get thrown away.
7. Make your own decorations; grow evergreens in the garden, but leave plenty of berries for the birds. Avoid plastic decorations. Make your own wrapping paper out of newspaper; decorate it with apple prints and recycle it afterwards.
8. Decorate a tree in your garden with edible things for the birds.
9. Take winter walks; look out for the starlings and rooks flying in to roost. Watch the sunset, learn about the stars and moon.
10. Feed and water the wild life in your garden and park, especially when the ground is frozen.
11. Make your own greetings cards. Email them if you can.
12. Make "Less is More" your New Year’s resolution.
WE WISH YOU A GREEN CHRISTMAS
The latest report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warns us to act now if we are to avoid irreversible impacts. We can all point the finger at others with larger carbon footprints than our own, but there is no excuse for not doing our bit. We must all take responsibility for our own actions. The consequences of not doing so would be catastrophic.
Why not start with Christmas - which has become an excuse for a consumer bonanza, a nightmare of frenzied shopping for gifts people don’t need or want, a time for spending money we don’t have, and for wasting excessive amounts of food.
Here are Twelve Ideas for a Post-Consumer Green Christmas
1. Spend time, not money, with your family and friends.
2. Join with your neighbours to make a community advent calendar, like Saltaire, where artists and locals will be creating another 'living advent calendar' in 24 shop and house windows which light up at dusk from December 1st:
http://www.saltairevillage.info
3. Celebrate seasonal customs: join in and support local events such as carol singing (write your own carol for your place), mumming plays, pantomimes and wassailing.
4. Celebrate winter and winter food. Make Stir-up Sunday (25th November) a family occasion with everyone helping to make the Christmas pudding. Try your farmers’ market for fresh local produce. Buy free-range meat. Look at the Soil Association’s list of organic and humanely produced food: http://www.soilassociation.org
5. Make your own Christmas food – the cake, pudding etc. Only buy just as much food as you need. Use leftovers and put final scraps out for the birds; see the RSPB web-site for advice on what to avoid:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/helpingbirds
6. Make your own or buy as many gifts as you can from your own locality; think about "Present Miles". Go for fewer, good quality, well made gifts such as books, clothes or other practical things. These are better than lots of trinkets that are likely to get thrown away.
7. Make your own decorations; grow evergreens in the garden, but leave plenty of berries for the birds. Avoid plastic decorations. Make your own wrapping paper out of newspaper; decorate it with apple prints and recycle it afterwards.
8. Decorate a tree in your garden with edible things for the birds.
9. Take winter walks; look out for the starlings and rooks flying in to roost. Watch the sunset, learn about the stars and moon.
10. Feed and water the wild life in your garden and park, especially when the ground is frozen.
11. Make your own greetings cards. Email them if you can.
12. Make "Less is More" your New Year’s resolution.
CHRIS
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Even in the last 3 years I have noticed a decline in the standard of shopping in our local town, More mobile phone shops, travel agents and junk shops and less reliable butchers, green grocers and useful stuff. This may be due to the huge rise in parking costs and more more traffic wardens in 1 town than the whole of Essex police force - this combined with free parking at You know where and you can see why it happens.
I try and go to Waitrose for the reasons you mention but in a typical Engish fashion it closes before I get home and on a Saturday morning it is the last place I want go (the only time I can go to the builder merchant before that closes), the main place I shop is the village butcher for bread, eggs and cheese and is all from East Anglia and for veg where ever I am passing. The veg boxes seem to start out good but after a few weeks it looks like it has been rolling around the truck all week and is bashed to bits - they also like you to sign up for a few month which I hate! Its just modern life I suppose but for couples with the the type of mortgages they have to have to be able to buy a house in todays market they both work long hours (much longer than 20 years ago according to the DWP) and there is a knock on affect.
I think if smaller buisnesses want to survive they have to get away from the "its always been like that" model and be a bit enterprising, just look at how much better service got in the 60s when Indian busnessmen started opening past 5.30 and did not close on a Wed afternoon. It must be one of the main reasons the mases go to Tesco love it or loath it one thing is for sure - its better than Asda and at least the money props up the UK pensions rather than Wallyworld in the USA.
Anyway I am miles away from all that during Christmas and will enjoy making all our decorations with no TV or radio just watching the birds and sheep here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/reserves/pages/cors_caron.shtml
I try and go to Waitrose for the reasons you mention but in a typical Engish fashion it closes before I get home and on a Saturday morning it is the last place I want go (the only time I can go to the builder merchant before that closes), the main place I shop is the village butcher for bread, eggs and cheese and is all from East Anglia and for veg where ever I am passing. The veg boxes seem to start out good but after a few weeks it looks like it has been rolling around the truck all week and is bashed to bits - they also like you to sign up for a few month which I hate! Its just modern life I suppose but for couples with the the type of mortgages they have to have to be able to buy a house in todays market they both work long hours (much longer than 20 years ago according to the DWP) and there is a knock on affect.
I think if smaller buisnesses want to survive they have to get away from the "its always been like that" model and be a bit enterprising, just look at how much better service got in the 60s when Indian busnessmen started opening past 5.30 and did not close on a Wed afternoon. It must be one of the main reasons the mases go to Tesco love it or loath it one thing is for sure - its better than Asda and at least the money props up the UK pensions rather than Wallyworld in the USA.
Anyway I am miles away from all that during Christmas and will enjoy making all our decorations with no TV or radio just watching the birds and sheep here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/reserves/pages/cors_caron.shtml
Penners
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I thought you were advocating that we should all be thus wary?Nemesis said:
Who exactly falls into the "really thinking people" category?
Nemesis
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Really, comma, thinking people... errata. Actually erratum but just in case there are others I haven't spotted.
http://www.whyorganic.org/Christmas%20list%202007.pdf
http://www.whyorganic.org/Christmas%20list%202007.pdf
Penners
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I repeat my question, with the word "really" deleted.
Nemesis
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Strawberries:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3995261.stm
http://www.juliahailes.com/z-strawberries-original.pdf
Both a little out of date, but make valid points.
http://www.soilassociation.org/organicheroes
http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/GetInvolved/buy.html
http://www.whyorganic.org/healthy_recipeMonth.asp
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3995261.stm
http://www.juliahailes.com/z-strawberries-original.pdf
Both a little out of date, but make valid points.
http://www.soilassociation.org/organicheroes
http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/GetInvolved/buy.html
http://www.whyorganic.org/healthy_recipeMonth.asp
Nemesis
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Penners - do you think Tesco is the greatest thing since to have hit retailing in this country?
http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/press_releases/tesco_profits_just_not_cri_19092005.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/jan/27/supermarkets.tesco
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article2752008.ece
You are, of course, free to shop where you wish. I just don't care for the way they operate. I don't care for the clone town buildings either. Yes I'm sure they are hugely successful, but I don't intend to contribute much to that success.
http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/press_releases/tesco_profits_just_not_cri_19092005.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/jan/27/supermarkets.tesco
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article2752008.ece
You are, of course, free to shop where you wish. I just don't care for the way they operate. I don't care for the clone town buildings either. Yes I'm sure they are hugely successful, but I don't intend to contribute much to that success.
CHRIS
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The worst thing is we all know strawberries are only good if they are from the UK and only during the summer, yet we see it time and time again horrid ones from Mexico or some other far flung place on the shelves during the winter.
My wife turned up a few weeks ago with said strawberries from Mexico so after a rant I forgave her when she explaine that as a kid and for 28 years of her life mexico was only 100miles from her house and it is still ingrained that its not far!!!!! I still eat all of them as punishment and to check for quality assurance - they were bland so dont worry.
My wife turned up a few weeks ago with said strawberries from Mexico so after a rant I forgave her when she explaine that as a kid and for 28 years of her life mexico was only 100miles from her house and it is still ingrained that its not far!!!!! I still eat all of them as punishment and to check for quality assurance - they were bland so dont worry.
Penners
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The answer is no. I think Tesco does some things well, and others not. I certainly don't enjoy shopping there, and avoid it when possible.Nemesis said:
But I baulk at suggesting that makes me, and those like me, somehow intellectually superior, or qualified to instruct others in their shopping habits.
CHRIS said:
An excellent example is our city-centre hardware shop, the blessed Thorns, which has outlived a similar shop a few streets away, and even a B&Q (with its own car-park) quite near.
It has achieved all this by stocking almost everything you might need for your house and garden and being willing and eager to order anything it doesn't have (which isn't often). You can go in and ask for an obscure widget and they'll ask you what size, and let you buy two in a paper bag. If you want a couple of large water-butts and associated piping they will deliver it. It has extended its opening hours to the extent of opening on Sundays during the run-up to Christmas.
You can find it in the centre of Norwich right opposite Jarrolds, a huge and successful family-owned department store.
In the market, a few yards up the road, are thriving butchers, greengrocers, florists, shoe-menders, fishmongers, organic food stalls ....
One one side of the market is a Tesco Metro, on the other is a row of the usual 'clone' stores.
They all seem to exist quite successfully cheek-by-jowl, and most people seem very satisfied with the arrangement.