Listed Building Insurance = Con ?

[MatthewC]

An insurance assessor ... said if a part of a wall collapsed then they would have to cost in the total for replacement stone, even though in practice most of the rubble would be reusable. That's because insurance always assumes the costs of carting away and buying new materials. Then they would rebuild in the traditional way, with facing stones, through-stones, and rubble/earth infill.
But if a wall totally collapsed they would use breeze blocks on the inside and stone facing. So a full collapse of a wall could be cheaper than a partial....

Re "reuseable", Ecclesiastical Insurance have a similar view on insuring churches which is different to normal insurance. Normally, if you are under-insured, they factor your claims by that amount. Rather, Ecclesiastical know that a burned out stone church will not usually require full demolition before rebuild, so you can choose to be 75% insured; this means that they are confident that the costs will be <75% of the complete rebuild cost. What does matter is that the insurer's overall rebuilding cost is correct - that's where you are underinsured!

By this token, 100% cover is over the top for certain building types. I think you could also have 25% which would only pay for demolition, clearing the site and making safe, and I forget what is covered for 50%.

NB Re Clifford's brieze blocks above, surely though that would not be allowed on a listed building?

Matthew

 

[philpjuk100]

I have this at the end of the garden (it`s the trent) I find even with the government levy that I am unable to get cover against flooding,the insurers either refuse to quote or make silly quotes (£5,500 NFU even more from AE) obviously don`t want the business.It is always the same at renewal time,put the details into "meercat" or similar,no quotes so have to phone, listed? "yes",gasp!,brick and tile? "no it`s timber framed"bigger gasp!,near water?,"yes I have the river at the end of the garden"sorry we are unable to quote try a specialist!.I am only able to insure by excluding the flood risk.I am happy to do this as the property has not flooded in living memory and the village was moved to its present position in the 1500s as the earlier village was flooded.I realize things change but in the ten years I have lived here even during the bad floods a couple of years ago the water never came anywhere near the house.I am enrolled in the flood warnings scheme and have filled in the flood help form (if the water reaches the summer house PANIC!).On the plus side I have the rights to moor,fish and extract water and after the last flood the river left me a dinghy and a nice garden bench!.

 

[philpjuk100]

That all makes sense. I've often thought it odd when I've heard that people couldn't get insurance cover because their house was near a river or similar, even though they were high enough that they would never flood in practice and thought to myself why not simply exclude flood damage from the policy.

Churchill have done this for me,in fact they insisted on that being the case.

 

[philpjuk100]

Insurance seems to be a bit "creative" a couple of years ago just before renewal time I phoned some companies I found using "google",I wrote down the premiums and the company on some paper,near the renewal time I chose one which seemed a lot cheaper than the rest but they were unable to retrieve my quote even though I had a reference number so had to go through the quote procedure all over again to get a premium now similar to all the rest!.Have done this with motor insurance as well,phone one day for a quote,phone the next day,get a different "phone person" and get a different premium!.

 

[Bogart]

Insuring anything is a gamble because I am sure as soon as a claim comes in the book of get out clauses is sought. It is amazing though how quotes can vary. Last year was quoted over £3000 by NFU for the property which they had insured for years with the previous owners so knew the place"intimately" I could not get it over to them that nothing had changed except the owner! Ended up gettng as near as possible like for like for £1300 on the proviso that I fitted smoke alarms in the loft spaces and first floor landings which would be inspected. Still waiting for the inspector.

 

[noj]

LV sound great - but won't touch our little cottage where around 80% of the walls are just weatherboard.
We were with Lark, but halved the premium using 'Intelligent Insurance' online - ended up with a reassuringly excessive £1,000,000 rebuild and £100,000 contents cover.

It could have been almost 50% less with one of their other providers if we fitted approved mortice locks to the external doors - but just not possible into plank doors that aren't as thick as the required mortice...

 

[Flyfisher]

Interesting requirement about mortice locks on ALL external doors. I've always thought this only applies to the 'final exit' door, meaning that all other doors can be secured by alternative means such as bolts. At least, I've never been required to fit mortice locks on ALL external doors - though I quite appreciate that different insurers can have very different requirements.

You are quite right about the problems of fitting modern locks to period doors though. We have one external door with a mortice lock (sash lock) with a 6-inch backset and from all my searching and enquiring it seems that such locks are only made with 3-lever mechanisms and not the 5-lever usually required as a minimum for a 'final exit' door. Not a problem per se as it it isn't a final exit door, but it's indicative of the sorts of problems period property owners can face when it comes to insuring their 'non-standard' properties.

 

[Me!]

- but just not possible into plank doors that aren't as thick as the required mortice...

I accept this won't be to everybody's taste, but on a modern plank door I fixed the lock and plate into routed out bits of oak plank which I then screwed very securely to the door and frame -

 

[noj]

That's secure - but wouldn't tick the insurance box...

We've got a pretty big key too, but it's still technically a rim lock

 

[Anonymous]

Right, well I thought I was done with this post but apparently not !

So last bank holiday Tuesday, the wife was moving suitcases off the bed, packing for holiday and making a bit of a noise about it.... Then I hear some sort of paper tearing sound and a sag in the front room ceiling.... I quickly grabbed hold of the ceiling and yelled some expletive at the wife to come and rescue her various heart shaped things etc which she did.... the paper tearing sound continuing... I let go of the ceiling and whoosh 2/3 of one side of the front room ceiling collapses on to the floor (pretty sure ceilings aren't supposed to be on the floor)...dust and crap of some 200 + years with it, our cream rug, now black....

So 2 1/2 hours later we've managed to take down the rest of the ceiling (on that side, basically a large oak beam splits the room in half).
From what I can tell various applications of plaster have clearly taken place since the original lime was applied to the laths and I think it's just basically given up due to the weight of what's been applied to it. The other side worryingly is of similar construction.

Anyhow having tidied the rest of it up, we're left with just the laths (and about 50% of the remaining crap that has collected). Every now and then a coating of dust and crap covers the TV...

So to cut a long story short, I called the insurance company. Luckily I got through to the wrong underwriter, who after I explained to him, explained to me that there had to be a cause as otherwise I probably wasn't covered !!!!! So I said doesn't vibration count ? Apparently not. If it was a water leak great, accidentally hit it with a pick axe even better, but not covered for "Just fell down"... I then called the right underwriter and blamed my wife's elephant like actions....

The Assessor has just been, he was about 12 and advised that they'd probably advise we just cover it with plasterboard, when I said the cottage was listed, it didn't seem to register.... I should have said I was under it when it came down and caused me injuries and shock and I could have claimed for a new TV too...but no... just need to cover the cost of a repair to the ceiling... but beware... ALL RISK cover doesn't seem to cover you for NO CAUSE.

Paul.

 

[Flyfisher]

Ouch!

I guess 'no cause' is regarded as 'wear and tear', which is always difficult to insure against because it's not so much a risk as an inevitability.

We had a ceiling collapse in a previous house caused by to a water leak that was a result of hot and cold water pipes being in contact with each other and gradually wearing through after years of tiny movements as they expanded and contracted. Given that the house was 1950s, my guess is they had been touching since being installed and it took 50 years to wear through and leak.

Anyway, the insurance company was fine with the claim for all the damage but would not pay for the actual plumbing repair, trivial though it was, as they said that was 'wear and tear' and therefore not covered!

 

[88v8]

...just need to cover the cost of a repair to the ceiling... but beware... ALL RISK cover doesn't seem to cover you for NO CAUSE.

Well that was a memorable start to the holiday.

Cover for no specific cause.. that's right, it doesn't. And in any case I think you may find the All Risks only applies to your contents, not the buildings.
Buildings cover is generally named perils, that is Fire lightning explosion aircraft water etc.

Depending what the ceiling will cost I'd think twice about claiming. Your premium will go up and stay up.
I tend to regard insurance as a protection against disasters of the house burnt down variety.
Just my view.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

Your premium will go up and stay up.

Indeed, but what's annoying is that it's not such a well defined process as with car insurance, ie NCD is gradually increased by stated amounts per year, is only partially lost depending on the number of claims and can be built up again after a further period of no claims. At least, I've never come across a house insurance policy that works that way.