Listed Building Consent

[a twig]

I’d just remind everyone of the Forum Rules - it’s fine to disagree but keep it civil please

 

[CliffordPope]

I agree with most of what Flyfisher says. I assume that "Trigger's Broom" is equivalent to the story of the old axe, 1000 years old, in which time it has has 4 new shafts and 2 new blades. Appearance and Provenance are what really matter.

Another key factor is the timescale over which the replacement happens.

A speeded-up analogy is with classic boats. in many ways similar to period houses, but the lifespan is effectively only 100 years, 200 at the maximum. The nature of their use speeds up the ageing process. Here the essential point is that the fabric is continuously replaced right from day one, over decades of use, with occasional more fundamental overhauls. So when it is 100 -200 years old there is probably very little of the original fabric left. That doesn't matter because the process has been gradual.
But if that one original bit of timber had been pulled out of a marsh and incorporated into a modern replica, then however accurate it would not be the original ship. Interesting and instructive no doubt, but something vital would be missing, and that would be continuity.

Classic cars pursue the analogy further. They rot faster than wooden boats, and so an old rotted specimin found buried in a wood and restored could have a new replacement chassis, new bodywork, rebuilt engine with all new parts, new wooden dashboard, new trim, etc etc. But if it had its logbook it would be the same car.

Or an historic garden could be entirely restored with new specimins. But if the trees and shrubs were put in the correct places as planned by Capability Brown then it would still be an historic garden, with not a single trace of the original plants.

 

[Nero]

Thank you for a helpful post.

The lifetime of buildings is much longer than boats or cars. But even in historic buildings, the proportion of original fabric will diminish with time and, if there is no clear evidence, may not be present anyway. The garden analogy is also a good one.

What is important are Appearance and Provenance, (which I think equates to Proven Continuity). In my view, legislation and HE advice should be revised to acknowledge this.

 

[a twig]

On a more practical note - the windows would have to be removed in order to be repaired.

COs are very overworked these days and generally don’t come out to site. If following the repair, reinstall and re-painting they were to come out it would probably be quite difficult for them to prove post-hoc that these freshened up windows were indeed the repaired originals rather than new ones made to the same same design. They would probably have to rely on things like invoices / quotes saying “repair”

 

[ThornhillMike]

I'd echo Twig's comment. Here's our new hardwood bespoke double sash weighted window alongside its (yet to be replaced) neighbour. The world didn't end, but we're draught proof and up to date...

 

[Nero]

While I accept Twig's argument, I would rather do things by the book. I have publicly criticised my Local Authority for inaction in relation to another derelict listed building, so I am something of a persona non grata with them.

I have also written to Angela Rayner, (Ministry for Housing, Communities and Local Government), via my MP, suggesting various changes to legislation which might ease the situation.