1kg of white? Putty usually comes in 25kg tubs….
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Toby Newell
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Sadly whilst I rent a flat in one and work on them every day I do not own a period property, however, as per another recent thread, if you want proper honest, detailed advice (the industry is full of BS and received wisdoms) then call Ingleby.
Possibly the most knowledgable people in the UK. The little hall and crooked house in Lavenham being two of the most famous medieval properties in the world, the latter owned by Suffolk Preservation Society, painted with Ingleby paints. In fact, I am reasonably certain that a large proportion of the buildings in Lavenham and Suffolk as a whole, home of the largest collection of medieval buildings in the world, are probably coated with Ingilby.
Ted Ingleby used to hand paint the colour cards, not sure if he is still with us. Before he started the business he was a top coating chemist working in UK, Europe and the Middle East and on proper technical stuff, like marine coatings. If you grew up in the 60s or 70s you have probably already used some of his products as he used to be a coating scientist at Humbrol.
He develeoped lime hybrids like interlime and pozilime which can go over lime and modern substrates.
Give them a call, then call the other companies.
I am a 37 year experienced finisher and I always trust a company that knows their technical stuff.
And.. lol, my two colour boxes of stains and pigments total around £1500.
Traditional earth pigments are fine, ie yellow ochre, raw sienna, burnt umber etc but they can be gritty and can require more diligent stirring, these are good as a base.
If you want to tint, you can use universal colour stainers, exactly the same stuff F&B and Dulux use. The best are Mixol, German, their parent company also make the pigments that go into auto paint. They cost about £15+ each per 200ml, the red of which would probably be enough to tint enough white limewash to make an entire house, or three, pink. And yes, they are magic, the go into both water based and solvent based finishes, fillers and glues, you might need to test with linseed oil based though, they can be tricky.
Final tip as a colour mixing expert (I can mix any colour paint or otherwise) firstly, you have to do a sample IN SITU on the actual substrate, as you would coat the entire area. Secondly wait until dry, which might be over a day. Thirdly, view in all lights, especially daylight. Fourthly, once you are happy with a sample recreate it in miniature and measure out and write down. Fithly, when you mix up your final mix make more than you think you will need and most importantly! Sixthly... when you do your big mix make it weaker at first! ie if making pink add less red, do a sample and 'creep up' on the pink, its easier to add a few drops more of red rather than dilute with another ten litres of limewash! And remember, yes, technically it is a science but infuriatingly there are so many variables it is also an art. Do not be surprised if you scale up your recipe and the large scale colour doesn't match your test sample! The most common reason is different application characteristics, for example if you are going to brush wash with a 6 inch brush 3 coats, then do that on the sample! If you are going to roller a finish, then do that on the sample, if you need to damp down then do that on the sample... it can be tempting to rush the sample, but don't! The more methodical you are the more accurate you will be.
For this reason (and the way your brain works in colour perception) your sample area needs to be at least 4 foot square (60x60cm) per each sample.
Mixol : Universal Stainer : 200ml : Red
Mixol is a binder-free multi-purpose tinting paste. Shake thoroughly before and close firmly after use so Mixol will not dry out or form lumps or skin. Mixol is highly resistant to frost and heat. After freezing it needs only to be thawed at room temperature. Then shake thoroughly and it is...
www.handover.co.uk
Ingilby Paints | Home
Ingilby Paints are a family of traditional, modern & specialist paint makers. Our small workforce consists of 3 generations who have been hand producing paints for over 50 years.
www.ingilby.co.uk
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Lacan07
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Ive just ordered an Ingliby colour cardSadly whilst I rent a flat in one and work on them every day I do not own a period property, however, as per another recent thread, if you want proper honest, detailed advice (the industry is full of BS and received wisdoms) then call Ingleby.
Possibly the most knowledgable people in the UK. The little hall and crooked house in Lavenham being two of the most famous medieval properties in the world, the latter owned by Suffolk Preservation Society, painted with Ingleby paints. In fact, I am reasonably certain that a large proportion of the buildings in Lavenham and Suffolk as a whole, home of the largest collection of medieval buildings in the world, are probably coated with Ingilby.
Ted Ingleby used to hand paint the colour cards, not sure if he is still with us. Before he started the business he was a top coating chemist working in UK, Europe and the Middle East and on proper technical stuff, like marine coatings. If you grew up in the 60s or 70s you have probably already used some of his products as he used to be a coating scientist at Humbrol.
He develeoped lime hybrids like interlime and pozilime which can go over lime and modern substrates.
Give them a call, then call the other companies.
I am a 37 year experienced finisher and I always trust a company that knows their technical stuff.
And.. lol, my two colour boxes of stains and pigments total around £1500.
Traditional earth pigments are fine, ie yellow ochre, raw sienna, burnt umber etc but they can be gritty and can require more diligent stirring, these are good as a base.
If you want to tint, you can use universal colour stainers, exactly the same stuff F&B and Dulux use. The best are Mixol, German, their parent company also make the pigments that go into auto paint. They cost about £15+ each per 200ml, the red of which would probably be enough to tint enough white limewash to make an entire house, or three, pink. And yes, they are magic, the go into both water based and solvent based finishes, fillers and glues, you might need to test with linseed oil based though, they can be tricky.
Final tip as a colour mixing expert (I can mix any colour paint or otherwise) firstly, you have to do a sample IN SITU on the actual substrate, as you would coat the entire area. Secondly wait until dry, which might be over a day. Thirdly, view in all lights, especially daylight. Fourthly, once you are happy with a sample recreate it in miniature and measure out and write down. Fithly, when you mix up your final mix make more than you think you will need and most importantly! Sixthly... when you do your big mix make it weaker at first! ie if making pink add less red, do a sample and 'creep up' on the pink, its easier to add a few drops more of red rather than dilute with another ten litres of limewash! And remember, yes, technically it is a science but infuriatingly there are so many variables it is also an art. Do not be surprised if you scale up your recipe and the large scale colour doesn't match your test sample! The most common reason is different application characteristics, for example if you are going to brush wash with a 6 inch brush 3 coats, then do that on the sample! If you are going to roller a finish, then do that on the sample, if you need to damp down then do that on the sample... it can be tempting to rush the sample, but don't! The more methodical you are the more accurate you will be.
For this reason (and the way your brain works in colour perception) your sample area needs to be at least 4 foot square (60x60cm) per each sample.
Mixol : Universal Stainer : 200ml : Red
Mixol is a binder-free multi-purpose tinting paste. Shake thoroughly before and close firmly after use so Mixol will not dry out or form lumps or skin. Mixol is highly resistant to frost and heat. After freezing it needs only to be thawed at room temperature. Then shake thoroughly and it is...
Ingilby Paints | Home
Ingilby Paints are a family of traditional, modern & specialist paint makers. Our small workforce consists of 3 generations who have been hand producing paints for over 50 years.
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Toby Newell
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A genuine made in UK third generation family business run by passionate experts who make paints for old dwellings in an area with more old dwellings than anywhere on the planet, most of which are coated with their products. What could go wrong?
FYI I absolutely love Little Hall Yellow, being possibly the second most famous building in Lavenham, not only did the Suffolk Building Preservation Trust blow a large two fingered rasberry to EH's usual insistance that all beams must be painted 1860's coal tar black, despite being 14th century by washing over everything, as would have been done. I think the colour is wonderful. Not sure if it's a straight raw sienna lightened by the lime or with a bit of yellow ochre added. It seems brighter than mexican yellow, less green than yellow ochre and less orange than straight raw sienna, I think it might be my favourite limewash colour of all! I'm not a huge fan of Suffolk pink!
Lacan07
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I think there is a photo of Little Hall on their website.
I sent them a few questions Toby, but you may have seen a few lime washed walls up close. I've seen videos describing how you can achieve the 'cloud effect' when applying lime wash but can you apply it as a 'block' colour like normal paint?
Toby Newell
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I am a wood finisher! My great-great-great-great-Grandfather might have known, he was a decorative painter. Ask Ingilby, Ted designed dozens of paints made into millions of litres, I am sure he has taught his kids some stuff. Pretty much all the top historic painters around Suffolk use Ingilby's, you can literally go from village to village and see hundreds of houses, halks, farms and churches painted with the stuff.
They should know! Who knows maybe Ted is still alive, maybe if you pop down to Suffolk you could have a chat with him.
I know how to mix paint colours but sadly not how to apply period paints, lime / caesin / linseed / tallow, etc, it is a very technical business and you really need to know your stuff! What goes where etc and how different substrates react and thus how to change your coating regime, in that instance it is closer to (but still not quite as tricky
) to wood finishing.
They should know! Who knows maybe Ted is still alive, maybe if you pop down to Suffolk you could have a chat with him.
I know how to mix paint colours but sadly not how to apply period paints, lime / caesin / linseed / tallow, etc, it is a very technical business and you really need to know your stuff! What goes where etc and how different substrates react and thus how to change your coating regime, in that instance it is closer to (but still not quite as tricky
) to wood finishing.
Toby Newell
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1kg of red pigment? that's a lot1kg of red and white pigment, although it looks more like cream than white.
Toby Newell
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well, I'm not sure there is anyone you can speak to at any other company with as much knowledge. That's what I go on. Marketing is all white noise to me. Show. Me. The. Money. ie can I speak to someone who can tell me what it's made of, how it's made, where it's made, how it works, how do you apply it, how it compares to other products and how it works at a molecular level?
Remember, your Guatemalan jojoba with Peruvian sea urchin tears hair conditioner may only contain less than a milligram of each per bottle, its 99.9999% soap and water and silicones, thats ok for hair, but for functional stuff you need cold hard scientific facts, not marketing piffle like 'natural' and 'breathable'. If that is the case then ask to speak to a degree educated or time served chemical / process engineer / retired finisher at the company who can answer all your questions. Osmo and Liberon can't and I see them as joke companies. If F&B offer that service thrn great if not then find a company that does.
There may be several companies that have similarly good solutions to the same problem.
What you should wish to do is find one that can reassure you through their knowledge, expertise, experience and communication skills that the hundreds of pounds and possibly dozens of hours you are going to spend on your project is going to have a very high chance of success.
Remember, Mr and Mrs F up can arrive at any point during a project and worms can easily start to crawl out the can on period properties, so the higher your confidence level the better. Confidence makes for more productive and less stressful working.
Toby Newell
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also at the risk of being a ponce, get advice first, there is no such thing as red and white pigment!1kg of red and white pigment, although it looks more like cream than white.
what is the red? litharge? aka red lead? more of an orange, red ochre? aka red iron? thats more of a slightly pinky burnt sienna... or a red sienna? thats more of a brown red...carmine red? you mean from cochineal? a bit purpley...Alizarin crimson?... a bit pink...what about white, Flake white? aka Lead Carbonate? goes grey blue quickly... Chinese white? aka Zinc Oxide? very slightly pink... or Titanic white? aka Titanium dioxide? very pure white, slight blue tinge... very high opacity...Not only do different pigments have different hues, they also have different opacity (obliterating power) and different permanence (light fastness) some mix better than others.
And what about milling size? larger grains clump less but fall out of solution faster, what about superfine universal colour stainers? they are so fine they have some qualities of a dye, so on very porous substrates you might need to use much less!
Oh. And after all that, the same pigment from a different company could be a noticeably different colour. Hang on, the same pigment from the same company could be slightly different from batch to batch... and when you come to apply it depending on the accuracy of the milling, your measuring, your stirring, the temperature, humidity and the porosity of the substrate and the technique of the applicator, and what applicator and especially depending on whether the day has a 'y' in it... your results may invariably vary.
So when someone says 'oh that's a lovely colour whats that called and where can I get it?' I tell them to get a well rinsed small pickle jar. I don't know I just mixed it. And you will need to store my brain somewhere. Hence the jar.
What I am saying is there are two sides to colour science, one is simply mixing to get a particular hue and shade, the other is technical, it's very, very technical! And both of those sides interract. I can name the number of top wood colourists still alive in the UK without taking my socks off...I am still learning 42 years after I got my first Daler-Rowney oil painting set for Christmas in 1981!
So, despite paint colouring being a walk in the park compared to wood finishing because then you introduce more varying porosity, transparent dyes and dye - pigment mixes... and about a million more permutations and technical limitations, it still isn't easy.
Which is why unless your paintwork is less than a few months old be it a house, boat or car, experts will advise you to coat an entire side instead of doing a patch repair, because the colour difference will probably be noticeable made to the exact same specifications, unless bespoke adjusted by a colour expert.
If someone said to me how you make pink mate, is you bung a load of white and red together I would look at him / her with a steadfast very feint smile and simply go 'right...thanks'
...apparently Marco Pierre White bunged the wrong type of red and white together to make the wrong type of Suffolk pink at his restaurant in Lavenham... and he was politely asked to repaint it... with more red.
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housewinnie
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Will be using some of this shortly as wanted something that may adhere to cement render too. Will let you know how it goes on.
www.ingilby.co.uk
Products | Pozilime Limewash | Ingilby Paints
External multi surface limewash. For cement render, brick, previously painted surfaces & other substrates as well as traditional breathable substrates.
www.ingilby.co.uk
Zebra
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I make my own putty from hydrated lime, super cheap and no issues. It can be used straight away although gets better with age. One tip for adding pigment - if the pigment is powder, mix it to a paste with a little warm water, add a bit of putty, mix some more, add a bit more putty, mix, etc...... don't just dump the coloured paste into a tub of limewash or you'll have a job getting the colour even.
Zebra
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I've not struggled with this - limewashed the whole house inside and out, couldn't possibly have mixed enough all in one go. My recipe is 1 15ml measuring spoon of pigment per coffee cup of putty, and you can't tell the batches apart...
Evening all,
I've limewashed both kids walls and hallway with just the lime putty colour, which as it turns out it bright white
, I was kinda expecting a slightly off white colour (the kind you see on lime walls online), it's a slighty coffee colour.
Does anybody know a simple was, or what to add to give this colour?
Regards James
I've limewashed both kids walls and hallway with just the lime putty colour, which as it turns out it bright white
, I was kinda expecting a slightly off white colour (the kind you see on lime walls online), it's a slighty coffee colour. Does anybody know a simple was, or what to add to give this colour?
Regards James
Easiest way is to buy it from here:
www.limestuff.co.uk
Limewash Off White | Lime Stuff
Limewash was traditionally used as a paint for lime plasters and lime renders. It is used internally and externally and is suitable for most old and historic buildings. Our off-white limewash is made
www.limestuff.co.uk
Nothing wrong with having a spare bucket or two of lime putty. It keeps forever if frost protected; mixed with water (and/or pigment) it's limewash, mixed with sharp sand it's mortar, render or plaster, add some fiber too and it's a better base coat, finer aggregate and it's a filler or finish plaster...
Zebra
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Buy some pigment from Ty-Mawr. I use their Burnt Sienna, I think, I'll check.... which, mixed pale enough is a kind of oatmeal colour. They sell tester pots which are quite enough for me. A 15ml measuring spoonful mixed to a paste in a little warm water then gradually mixed with a coffee cupful of putty, then three coffee cupfuls of water makes a litre of limewash. Or thereabouts. You can play about with the mix. I used to do 20ml spoonful per litre of limewash but prefer it paler.