Internal doors

[JoceAndChris]

Is that because you're very understandably annoyed by his awful meanness, or because the idea of second hand repels? I agree he ought to come down a bit from what he paid.


Having said that I bitterly regret not buying things from our previous owner because of the very reason you are citing, he wanted to recover his total cost.

Make sure you take lots of photos of the doors when you go to see them today, so that you can show them to the CO and if you get approval can then show them to your carpenter for a quote. The new quote will likely be higher than what your previous owner is asking for, work and materials costs have gone up.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

I'm just annoyed he took them out. It's not that they are second hand. That's not a consideration. It's the fact that he thinks we are daft and will pay him more than they are worth to us. If he won't negotiate, he's left with 26 bespoke doors. If he could have sold them before now, he would have.

 

[LadyArowana]

Find out from the CO if the doors the PO is selling would be allowed. If they wouldn't then the matter stops there. If they would, then you have to cost out what replacements would be. If the removed ones are in good condition and are cheaper then there is no point wasting money on having another set made. The PO can either sell them to you or get very little for them. Sometimes these things are a matter of emotion and face saving though, just depends who wants what out of the deal. For me if it was something like this that was easily replaceable it would be purely a money choice.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Yes, I can understand your fury and contempt, that's just how I felt when our previous owner started trying to sell us original bathroom fittings to the cottage and gates he's made (he was a metal worker). But now they're gone, and I let them go

Have a really good look on Ebay on what bespoke, hardwood, Jacobean style doors are selling for, if you can find any. That will give you an idea of price he could get by selling them that way. Are they all the same size, or made to fit different openings? Has he got receipts for the work? Is there paperwork to say he had LBC?

The value of something, to you, for your lovely house, has got to be worked out by looking carefully (with your CO and I hope with us on here) at the material, the fitness for purpose, the historical mood, as well as condition and how many days that took someone to make.

You can go to Dunelm and get a large shaggy rug or £99. Fine. Or you can go to Liberty's and spend £3000 on the same size rug that took 2 years to make and is 30 years old. They are different things and can't really be compared.

 

[LadyArowana]

Yes, I can understand your fury and contempt, that's just how I felt when our previous owner started trying to sell us original bathroom fittings to the cottage and gates he's made (he was a metal worker). But now they're gone, and I let them go

People do strange things to make an extra $ when they sell. The slightly odd people we bought the house from wanted to remove some things and sell back to us. Then they found out that they were really not worth very much separated from the house and sold them to us for what the auction house had quoted them. I was a tad peeved, but it wasn't enough money to fuss over. I did however decline the water softener ( which they asked 500 of our good British pounds for ), they claimed it was "new". When I replaced it before the tenants moved in the plumber said the previous one "must have been turned off for ages". We so nearly walked away from the deal to buy because of their strangeness, and if the house hadn't ticked our boxes we would have done, but sometimes you just have to be grateful for idiocy and we both felt that it was worth the nuisance.

 

[angrybird]

A very strange little man cycles past my house every day,one day he stopped and said "I have the stone from the top of your arch.you can have it back if you want it" firstly yes I do want it back secondly how the heck did he get a stone down from the top of the arch that weighs over half a ton and get it home on his bike :lol:

 

[LadyArowana]

A very strange little man cycles past my house every day,one day he stopped and said "I have the stone from the top of your arch.you can have it back if you want it" firstly yes I do want it back secondly how the heck did he get a stone down from the top of the arch that weighs over half a ton and get it home on his bike :lol:

:lol: But maybe it fell off straight onto the back of his pickup truck? If it broke the back axel in so doing it would explain why he has to use the bicycle now. In any case I hope you can get it back.

 

[angrybird]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
silly me , I never thought of that !

 

[Flyfisher]

If the house was listed when the doors were removed and consent for their removal was not obtained, then my understanding is that a criminal offence has been committed. The fact that this is a G2* property would, I'd hope, mean that the various authorities would take such matters quite seriously. Gareth has already hinted as much.

Perhaps he should be offered a 'reasonable' amount for the doors, preferably with all correspondence in writing/email, and if he doesn't accept then he could be reminded of his criminal actions and that you intend to reunite the doors and the house one way or the other.

You'll need to be sure of the facts first though.

 

[JoceAndChris]

As usual nail hit on head by Flyfisher

Sonya has written this in another thread (the one entitled "Lots Of Pictures")

"The previous owner rebuilt the house from an empty shell with no roof and no origional features save stone work and some beams. He did a good job in some areas and bad in others. He put in ornate plasterwork but did not put a spetic tank in. Wrong way around for me!
It was on the at risk register, the council could not secure funding for the work and he saved it. He tried to sell it but no one wanted it as a family home. All who came to view wanted a change of use to commercial, restaurant, apartments etc. Consents were granted for the works, retrospectively as that was the way of the previous owner. We have met with him. He has all the internal doors, locks etc and wants to sell them to us. He took the heating system and all the rads out before handing the keys back."

What I don't understand is a) whether he bothered to get retrospective permission for the doors b) whether retrospective permission has the same legal obligation that those things are then part of the listed fabric of the building, and can't be removed.

I rather think you wouldn't take something away from a building you'd got LBC for as you might realise it would land you in hot water. What a messy situation for Sonya!

But their fitness for purpose really has to be talked over with the CO.

 

[worms]

I'm afraid I would walk away, but perhaps keep an eye on the places where he might try to sell them.

I would also be looking at internal doors as one of the longer term cash-flow parts of the project. If you could find a local craftsman to do a door a month, you would spread the cash-flow over the next couple of years, he would be getting a regular income and be able to work that into his day-to-day work and the project would move forward at predictable pace.

But that is me...your ability to be civil to this guy, your cash situation and your expectations of progress may all be healthier than mine!

 

[plasticpigeon]

If he sells them to a yard or privately he will get less than he paid. Legal issues aside, you could offer what you think is reasonable and wait. I think he'll sell at a reasonable price (ie less than purchase price but more than salvage value) to you as it is hassle to do anything else. Not trying to be devil's advocate here, but if the house was built from a shell, it must have cost him a fortune, then been repossessed, I bet he has lost a fair bit.

 

[Moo]

I agree with Worms about doing the doors 'on instalments'. Good for you, and for the craftsman who makes them.
And - until we've seen the doors that the P.O. wants to sell you, we won't be able to decide whether it would be worth while reinstating them.



the use of "we" is quite deliberate: just in case you hadn't noticed, you have been taken to the collective heart of PPUK

 

[Schoolmarm]

" He has all the internal doors, locks etc and wants to sell them to us. He took the heating system and all the rads out before handing the keys back."

Was it a repossession? This seems to be how people operate nowadays as soon as a repossession looms.

 

[tobydog]

I used to be an estate agent (let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that!!) and unfortunately attended several repossessions. To be fair the majority left the houses in a generally good condition, however, I will never forget one where they cut out the copper piping to the gas fire in the lounge and all they did to make good was to bend the end over :shock: .

Hope you get everything back.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Well, we went to see the doors this morning. I was expecting to see the doors upright and all 26. What we got was a dark warehouse where they are stacked on pallets high up and some lower down. We got up close and personal to one door that was on the top of the stack. Disappointing, as we could not inspect them front and back. However, from what we did see, they are very good doors which are (and forgive my poor description) panel doors with decorative moulding on both sides. They are 5 inches in depth and seem to be built around a "biscuit" from what we could see.

We have had all the thoughts you have all had and I'm very fortunate that I have a good door contact who can make new doors so it may be that we deal with it a couple of doors at a time over the next few months.

My hubs does not want to pay him what he is asking for doors that we cannot examine properly. If we do buy them it will have to be with staged payments and the last bigger payment made upon delivery and full inspection with the right to reject badly damaged doors.

Schoolmarm, it was a repossession.

PP, he has spent a lot of money on it but that's not our consideration. He's annoyed that we did not buy a 5 year old heating system off him but who would would buy that and hence the doors have risen £2,500 since February. The new heating that we are reinstating is under warranty etc. I don't think he can sell the doors as they are all bespoke irregular sizes. He would have sold them by now. I think he thinks we can be taken advantage of.

Worms, I think you and my hubs would get on as he shares your views. I asked my hubs to divorce his emotion and look at how much more we will need to pay for the same quality door which is made new. Of course it will be a lot more.

FF, I can't comment as I simply do not have sufficient information at this time.

If only CO's were as accessible as Gareth is, life would be a lot less stressful!

 

[Schoolmarm]

Sorry just caught up on your earlier threads. If he took the doors and heating out after his lender started to threaten repossession, I wonder if the lender might be interested to know the location of the doors?

 

[Flyfisher]

If only CO's were as accessible as Gareth is, life would be a lot less stressful!

We do seem to be well served in Norfolk, though I would have thought a G2* building would be reasonably high in any CO's priorities.

It's a shame you couldn't get some photos of the doors, but they sound seriously substantial if they are 5-inches in depth. It would be nice to think that given the undoubted expense involved the previous owner would have gone to the trouble of ensuring their design was truly appropriate for the house.

Joce raises some interesting questions about retrospective LBC. My guess is that once granted then it would have the same legal force as any other LBC. If that's true and if LBC for the doors was granted (either before or after they were installed) then removing them is, presumably, an offence.

However, if LBC was granted and the doors were bought but never fitted then my guess would be that there's no offence, only some approved work that has yet to be finished.

But I am only guessing. How frustrating at an already stressful time.

At least it should be fairly simple to find out what LBCs have been approved.

 

[Schoolmarm]

FF one of the doors is shown fitted in a previous picture.

 

[JoceAndChris]

And it looks very nice, and Jacobean-y, whereas everyone howled Viccy at Sonya's link on P1 of this thread. I'm worried this is going to be a case of cutting off nose to spite face.

Sympathise with the husband with horns out difficulty though, been there, oh so many times. You have to chic chip chip away at these men, wear them down like a stone.