Insufficient paint

[JoceAndChris]

I fully respect those views MdB and I'm sure I'd be as unable to go fox-hunting as I am to cull rabbits. I would sooner there was a humane cull of foxes than a return to fox hunting. If we all eat more wild rabbit we might reduce the numbers somewhat. If the rabbit catcher was as busy on this hill as of yore there would not be this problem.

Someone has offered to come and humanely cull my foxes.

I wondered about growing some willow to make a woven willow archway as an entrance to the house

You definitely should. It would look lovely. I went on a willow weaving course, it was brilliant, though my weaving was as wonky as anything.

Probably only good for making my quietus.

??? There is nothing quiet about you Sir!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

OK - I raised the hunt issue - perhaps I shouldn't have. Sorry.

Without prolonging the debate, one of the misconceptions is that there are more "humane" alternatives that are viable. Shooting is only more humane if a quick and clean kill can be guaranteed every time -otherwise a painful and lingering death ensues out of sight. Shooting/trapping/poisoning/gassing etc can't guarantee a swift kill every time. Hounds dispatching a fox is quick and enures a kill every time.

I fully accept that a lot of people have issues with the chase prior to dispatch and the fact that there are undoubtedly people who enjoy the chase and the ride. My personal experience of hunting (I don't ride) is that it is supported by people from all walks of life and is not a preserve of the "toffs". Others have a different perspective. Parliament has legislated and the matter is closed unless or until a future parliament legislates differently.

To return it to a period property/conservation angle, much of the landscape that we see has developed over hundreds of years and has been managed to support field pursuits, including hunting of various types. The landscape may no longer be managed and maintained in this way without those pursuits. I am not just interested in the conservation of our built heritage, but of our rural heritage also. If we lose either, we will be impoverished as a nation.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Someone has offered to come and humanely cull my foxes.

How? PM me to avoid continuing the debate here - just interested in the "humane" method proposed.

 

[Cloudscape]

We have always found that moveable electric poultry netting works just fine

Ah, but foxes aren't likely to hunt electric poultry, are they?

Electric poultry? Would a battery chicken qualify?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

We have always found that moveable electric poultry netting works just fine

Ah, but foxes aren't likely to hunt electric poultry, are they?

Electric poultry? Would a battery chicken qualify?

Groan! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

Unfortunately, however you cull foxes, it will only provide temporary respite before neighbouring foxes spread back into your area. So its a constant battle really.

A bit like our moles. We had a blitz during the summer and killed 20 of them, which has helped the grass no end (not to mention my mower). But they are now starting to come back from the neighbouring fields so we have a sort of 'front line' where we try to catch them before they get back to the grass (I hesitate to call it 'lawn' as that conjours up visions of neatly mown stripes, which it most definitely isn't).

 

[Pford75]

Since sending Mrs F on a rabbit and mole control course, she obtained a Lantra certificate which enables her to purchase and use phosphides (which following the banning of strychnine are the only chemical treatment for moles). Using pest controllers would neccesitate 2 staff members due to COSHH legislation and as you say, the moles quickly move back in.

By having our own licence, we can treat the moles as they appear - the phosphides are not expensive and appear to be doing the job. We're not attempting to eradicate moles from all of our land, just the main lawn where my kids play football and where the mole runs were becoming dangerous. I would recommend anyone bothered by moles to consider a similar route.

By the way, the course instructor commented on the extent to which the mole population has spiralled out of control in recent years. He also pointed out that if you have rabbits on your land, you are bound by law to control the population (something we were not aware of). There are plenty of neighbours here (and the local parish council) who do not take steps to control the rabbit population on their land - which in turn creates huge problems for local farmers.

 

[Flyfisher]

I knew about the legal requirement to control rabbits, but I've never quite understood what 'control' actually means in the sense of discharging this responsibility; complete eradication or just keeping their numbers below plague proportions (where 'plague' would need a legal definition!).
I believe there are similar laws relating to certain plants as well.

I suspect these laws are not used much these days.

 

[Nigel Watts]

If we all eat more wild rabbit we might reduce the numbers somewhat.

I second that. I think rabbit is very underrated meat. I normally stew it following an Italian recipe using white wine, rosemary and new potatoes. Earlier this year I made a cold rabbit and prune pie based on a Constance Spry recipe as the main dish for a picnic at Glyndebourne which went down very well with our guests.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Mmmmm! Sounds delicious!

There are too many foxes. Why? Because there are too many rabbits, and because people often like foxes and feed them, or at least, don't take steps to prevent them from feeding.

There are too many rabbits. Why? Because people like rabbits to look at and not to eat, and because most people seem to think that talking about the damage rabbits do is something of a joke. (and yet the Georgian farmhouse in the next field was knocked down because of rabbits ten years ago, and in France this problem is taken seriously and the law against upwards spiralling rabbit populations on your land is enforced).

At the same time as the above situation, there is a vastly increased interest in allotments and poultry keeping, even in towns. These conflicts of interests and clashes are going to increase - it will be interesting to see what happens about this in the next ten/twenty years. I predict an increase in the popularity of rabbit as a meat and a return to fox hunting as more and more townies are heart broken over losses. Unless we're all blitzed by global warming, in which case we'll happily eat anything that moves, including foxes. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/recipes/article2049184.ece

 

[Flyfisher]

Any species that increases its numbers to plague proportions becomes an environmental nuisance; foxes, rabbits, grey squirrels . . . . . . humans. :wink:

Interesting link - I'd not seen a recipe for fox before.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Interesting link - I'd not seen a recipe for fox before.

I'm astounded to have found a gap in your knowledge. :wink: The French report le renard to be delicious, quel surprise.

 

[Penners]

The French report le renard to be delicious

I don't know whether you enjoy the show Mock The Week, but I do. One of the recent topics for humour was "Things you'd never hear said on a French TV cookery programme". Frankie Boyle's contribution was:

"...and then we throw away the rest of the animal."

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: Brilliant. Yes, I love that show too - for an inveterate hater of TV I watch a surprising amount on iplayer. This might even be the year I give in and get TV technology.

I admire the French, though, for that attitude. (just in case there are any French people taking offence at this point). I think it's quite wonderful to eat absolutely every bit of everything- so adventurous, and economical. Every year I push myself to try one more thing, and have reasonably happily eaten eels, hares, brains, trotters, livers, frogs and insects. Why not fox? When I get him, I'm very very tempted to try that recipe above, for vengeance, if nothing else.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Mock the Week - Fab. Frankie Boyle's joke about the Queen was awful, but absolutely hilarious*

As for eating fox - I am up for pretty much anything other than eating carnivores or primates - hence fox, dog, lion, chimp, etc are firmly off the menu.

One of the best food books I've read is Hugh Fearnly-Whittingstall's "Meat Book" - I defy anyone to read it and not be tempted by all the offal recipes he suggests.


*http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2008/mock-the-week-haunted-pssy-p1.php - it's at 1m17s, but a bit rude.

 

[Flyfisher]

Interesting point about avoiding eating carnivores, FW. I'd never given it much thought before, but you're right that all the commonly eaten meats are herbivores. I don't think that would stop me eating something carnivorous but primates would be a definite no-no though; too close to cannibalism for my taste. I'd add ox hearts to Joce's list - very tasty stuffed and roasted.

 

[Schoolmarm]

I agree with the not eating carnivorous mammals, yuk.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I seem to recall something from biology about the efficiency of energey transfer.

It went something like: 1% of sun's energy is converted to usuable food by plants, of which 1% is usefully transferred to herbivores as meat, of which 1% is usefully transferred to carnivores as meat. I think the idea was that if we ate carnivores we'd need to eat more of them to get the necessary nutrition - but that doesn't add up. Muscle is muscle.

 

[Flyfisher]

You're right that muscle is muscle, but I don't think that's the issue. It's more to do with embodied energy.

The sun 'powers' grass. Cows eat lots of grass, 'concentrating' it to make meat. Lions (say) eat lots of cows and also make meat.

If we eat the grass directly then we consume the least embodied energy. If we eat a cow we indirectly 'eat' all the grass that the cow ever ate, i.e. more embodied energy. If we eat a lion we indirectly 'eat' all the cows that the lion ever ate plus all the grass that all those cows ever ate, i.e. loads more embodied energy.

Basically, we can feed more people with grain than we can by feeding the grain to cattle and eating meat. Adding another layer would mean feeding even fewer people from the original grain.

But I don't think eating the odd fox would be too much of a problem. :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well that is all too scientific for my poor brain to begin to comprehend.

But, I wouldn't be too hasty in labelling foxes carnivores, or chickens herbivores - they're actually both omnivores. If you'd like to sweeten up the taste of your fox, judging by the evidence on this website it would be best to eat him in late autumn when he's likely to have been consuming a fair bit of fruit. http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/urbanfoxes/index.html

Of course, foxes like to eat meat, but they'll happily tuck into Special Fried Rice etc. Chickens have a need for grass and greens, but their marked preference is for meat and left to their own devices they spend the whole day rather frantically searching for invertebrates. I took mine chopped up braised steak yesterday: I've never seen them fight over anything so much before.

If I ever get a chance to eat my fox, I will of course report back.