Help! Run out of rainwater.

[Schoolmarm]

Joce,
Perhaps I could lend you the current Mr M to take a look at your well - I sent him down ours the other day just to see what as down there!
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f223/umumford/002.jpg

How the hell would you have got him out if anything had gone wrong?

 

[skier-hughes]

After todays thunder storms and torrential rain our moat is now virtually back to full!!!

 

[Ushy M]

Hang on a minute- just noticed your expression the "current Mr M"... How many are/were there?

Where are the others?

Has he just found their bodies down that well?

Well (sorry) - as Penners has observed in the past, as we've only just celebrated 20 years together I refer to him as that just so he doesn't feel like he's got his feet too far under the table!

Other water-saving suggestions - a brick in the loo cistern saves water on each flush, specially with an old-fashioned loo with no dual flush. There are a few more on the Environment Agency website here: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/drought/38525.aspx
Though I expect you've already thought of these.

To Jocelyn P -it's not really a well, just a water storage cistern and is only about 7 feet deep so not too hard to get him out. All we found down there was 5 buckets of sludge and a rather startled frog. Once we'd got the sludge out, it looked as if there was the remains of some sort of clay lining - does anyone know if there would have been a lining on this sort of (I'm guessing Victorian) cistern?

 

[Aidan]

To Jocelyn P -it's not really a well, just a water storage cistern and is only about 7 feet deep so not too hard to get him out. All we found down there was 5 buckets of sludge and a rather startled frog. Once we'd got the sludge out, it looked as if there was the remains of some sort of clay lining - does anyone know if there would have been a lining on this sort of (I'm guessing Victorian) cistern?

Puddled clay was the preferred waterproofing material for cisterns, canals, ponds and just about everything else. It would usually be on the outside of the cistern, tanking around the brickwork.

The picture is from a splendid Edwardian teach-yourself-everything-about-everything-book. It has a similar detail for the construction of a cess pit, which is very similar.

 

[Aidan]

Beacon Hill doesn't look very high, the mains connection could still be an option. The water suppliers may have been looking for any convenient work-avoiding excuse.

You can get collapsible water tanks, designed to fold down to get through a domestic loft hatch. The capacity would relatively small, so you'd need a few of them. You can also get sectional GRP water storage tanks, but they're usually eye-wateringly expensive new and of dubious quality if second hand. It's generally a specialist job to erect them. There are also 1,000 litre IBC containers available on E-Bay and elsewhere.

 

[Penners]

as Penners has observed in the past, as we've only just celebrated 20 years together I refer to him as that just so he doesn't feel like he's got his feet too far under the table!

Quite right. Keep 'em on their toes. After only 42 years together, I certainly wouldn't want Mrs P to get too relaxed about our permanence.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Beacon Hill doesn't look very high, the mains connection could still be an option. The water suppliers may have been looking for any convenient work-avoiding

Thankyou for your thoughts Aidan. The hill is about 3 times higher than photo indicated, and bear in mind they stood to make a good bit of money out of us.

I just don't know how possible/costly it would be, and the person we hired to tell us is less helpful than this thread, by a lot!

 

[JoceAndChris]

The rainwater tank is now about a quarter full, after all the rain- great - muddy baths once more.

(The heating system's not working now though, so I have no hot water or Rayburn. , so they'll be cold muddy baths )

And, look at this for a quote!

Cleaning tank = £750.00 plus VAT (2 days work running a specially modified pump for the job, bringing 2000 litres of water here)
Repairing tank if brickwork is cracked = £1420 per day for one man to work down there with breathing apparatus. Unknown quantity of days.

I now understand why this tank has been allowed to become more and more dilapidated and filthy over the years!

It's going to be cheaper to get a borehole than to sort out this tank.

So this is what we're going to do:

Buy a good pond vaccuum, suction it out ourselves. Wait for rain and repeat this process ad nauseum. Not use much water, and continue our borehole investigation.

 

[Penners]

£1420 per day for one man to work down there with breathing apparatus

:shock: :shock:

So have you dismissed the idea of shoving a flexible water tank down into The Pit? You could then arrange for your surface water to drain into it, with a diverter valve to operate when it's full.

No good for drinking, but you could certainly wash, bath and flush with it.

 

[JoceAndChris]

So have you dismissed the idea of shoving a flexible water tank down into The Pit? You could then arrange for your surface water to drain into it, with a diverter valve to operate when it's full.

No, I haven't dismissed that very interesting idea: I'm currently getting quotes for it, but seeing as it would need to be custom built, and somebody would have to go down and fit it properly (and one of the companies Flyfisher kindly suggested has said it would be a case of lining the walls/ ceiling rather than shoving a bladder-type tank in) I don't see it as being an affordable or quick-fix option.

If you found a flexible bladder-type tank to roughly fit the space, you'd still need to go in there and connect up all the inflowing and outflowing pipes.

Maybe we should take up scuba diving and get comfortable with doing DIY in breathing apparatus.

 

[Penners]

Oh come on... working underwater isn't such a big deal.

Lots of people do it:

 

[JoceAndChris]

:shock:

Is she a 21st century mermaid? Anyone got any mermaid mates?

One of Flyfisher's companies tank lining just phoned and also quoted £1400 for one day down The Pit. I suppose I can't blame them.

Becka- if you're reading this and would like to become very rich in your new career, get yourself a Certificate in Enclosed Spaces, and get down in the tanks of Britain!

 

[chuckey]

Buy a large wet and dry vacuum cleaner . Remove all the filters from the vacuum cleaner. Plug in and switch on vacuum cleaner and drop the hose into the tank with its lid off. Make sure that end of hose is just clear of floor (because your have taken the filters out). As methane, CO2 and CO are heavier then air they would naturally be at the bottom of the tank.
From a catalogue a tank type vacuum cleaner (motor = 1200W) sucks 60 litres/second, after removing the filters, this figure will be substantially higher (+20%?).

60 l/s = 3600 X 24 X60 l/day = 5184 Cu m/day = 176,256 cu ft/day , so depending on the size of your tank, it is likely that it will have been totally vacated at least once.

Afterwards replace the filters and use it to clean up the tank.
Frank

 

[Penners]

Frank - I'm sorry, but I think that's a high risk strategy. I don't deny that it could work, but without the means to test the atmosphere inside the tank, I think Joce and Chris would be at considerable risk by climbing inside. And having done so, if someone were to slip and fall....

I just don't think it's worth the risk. I certainly wouldn't do it.

 

[worms]

If you follow Frank's advice, it might also be worth investing in a canary...

 

[CHRIS]

:shock:
One of Flyfisher's companies tank lining just phoned and also quoted £1400 for one day down The Pit. I suppose I can't blame them.

Becka- if you're reading this and would like to become very rich in your new career, get yourself a Certificate in Enclosed Spaces, and get down in the tanks of Britain!

I have seen courses that are quite cheap by course standards of about £125 per day for a 3-4 day confined spaces course - not bad at all for Becka to retrain, by the way I have a 15 year old young lady who wants to become a Civil Engineer coming on work experience next month so you should see the paper work involved in that !!

 

[chuckey]

Yes I was going to make some remark about canaries, I think a lit candle suspended in the "ventilated" void, would work OK. Certainly it would see off any methane!.
Of course the classic way of purging petrol tanks of vapour before welding, is to fill them with water.
Frank

 

[Flyfisher]

I should, perhaps, just clarify that they were not "my" companies, but thanks for the pricing feedback; it's always interesting to put some figures to the products/services.

£1400/day for in-tank working does sound expensive, although I wonder if this includes a second person outside the tank as well? Having to bring their own water probably doesn't help the cost either. Incidentally, I have scuba diving certification and the training emphasises the dangers of diving in enclosed spaces such as wrecks, and that's nothing to do with breathing difficulties per se, more to do with the cumbersome equipment, dangers of snagging, disorientation etc. I guess some of these factors might apply above water as well.

I can see that a borehole is becoming an increasingly attractive option.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

by the way I have a 15 year old young lady who wants to become a Civil Engineer coming on work experience next month

Sounds the ideal kind of expendable labour to send down into Joce's tank. The Victorians had a lot of things right you know... :twisted:

 

[JoceAndChris]

I should, perhaps, just clarify that they were not "my" companies, but thanks for the pricing feedback; it's always interesting to put some figures to the products/services.

A poor choice of phrase on my part- sorry, I did not mean to imply you stood to make anything from your kind suggestions!

I should also clarify what the £1400 covers. One company said 2 men, the other said 3. It doesn't cover the cost of bringing water- that was a separate charge. It is the cost of their salary, equipment, insurance and all the red tape that goes along with it - apparently they have to notify the Fire Brigade!

If 2 men received £700 each, and their company took off 50%, as they often do to cover the costs of running a business and their own wages, that's £350 per day, which is a decent salary but not an amazing one. And they probably don't get to do that every day, so truthfully I doubt the employees of the tank lining companies are particularly well paid.

It was interesting to read what you say about the scuba diving training.

And thanks for all the other thoughts too.