Heating options

[a twig]

If eBay can work out my lifestyle just from a few purchases and then target me with offers, not just for repeats but similat things that might tempt me, then I'm sure a really smart electricity meter could very easily do a better job with better data.
I obviously have a washing machine, because it would spot the canny way I set it to come on at night, and see from the rhythym of the current drawn over the cycle that it is an older model, not very efficient. How long before it sells the data to an advertiser and I start getting pestered by ads for new super-efficient washing mchines?
Just like the machines hospitals use for tracing heart patterns, so know which valve is missing a beat or not communicating properly with which other valve.

Mark my words, there's a whole new field of serveilance and detective analysis of domestic electricty use patterns ready to happen. Not to mention criminal use. I bet it's easy to spot when a house is unoccupied, what sort of electrical devices they have, when to break in, what to nick, what sort of EV to pinch, etc.
You heard it here first!

Old news - it has been possible to figure out what TV programme you are watching from your smart meter data for over a decade:

Researchers claim smart meters can reveal TV viewing habits | Smart Energy International

Münster, Germany --- (METERING.COM) --- September 21, 2011 - A group of researchers at the Münster University of Applied Sciences have claimed that it is possible to use the electricity usage data from a smart electricity meter to determine which programs a consumer is watching on a standard TV...

www.smart-energy.com

 

[Flyfisher]

Not bad for 14 years ago but these days the widespread digital streaming takes all the guesswork out of it by simply tracking IP addresses. Similarly with Spotify to track music and posdcasts. But again, so what? If someone really wants to know what I watch on Netflix of listen to on Spotify they only have to ask and I'd be happy to tell them. In fact, don't we all just 'give away' this sort of information in our daily conversations?

It reminds me of all the hoo-hah about revealing bank account details while we were all happy to write cheques that had all the information clearly printed on them, and countless other examples.

 

[Drayton]

Not bad for 14 years ago but these days the widespread digital streaming takes all the guesswork out of it by simply tracking IP addresses. Similarly with Spotify to track music and posdcasts. But again, so what? If someone really wants to know what I watch on Netflix of listen to on Spotify they only have to ask and I'd be happy to tell them. In fact, don't we all just 'give away' this sort of information in our daily conversations?

It reminds me of all the hoo-hah about revealing bank account details while we were all happy to write cheques that had all the information clearly printed on them, and countless other examples.

Yes, a friend refused point blank to give another friend her bank codes so that a debt could be paid via online banking - she was furious to be asked, far too risky! Yet I had a cheque from her, complete with all the numbers plus her signature, which I had been carrying round for days waiting for a chance to get to the bank. Where they would turn it into digital information...

 

[a twig]

Not bad for 14 years ago but these days the widespread digital streaming takes all the guesswork out of it by simply tracking IP addresses. Similarly with Spotify to track music and posdcasts. But again, so what? If someone really wants to know what I watch on Netflix of listen to on Spotify they only have to ask and I'd be happy to tell them. In fact, don't we all just 'give away' this sort of information in our daily conversations?

It reminds me of all the hoo-hah about revealing bank account details while we were all happy to write cheques that had all the information clearly printed on them, and countless other examples.

Sure if you’re streaming then everyone knows everything, my point was if you could even work out what people were watching on traditional broadcast TV from smart meter data that long ago then privacy has long sailed.

I dislike smart meters for two reasons:

1) The design of them is poor, unreliable and the early ones rely on 2G mobile phone networks that are being switched off this year. Not all implementations of the standard are equal often meaning when you switch supplier your meter becomes dumb again.

2) A smart meter allows for a supplier to shut off electricity to your property remotely without having to visit the property - having had run ins with utility companies threatening to cut me off due to problems in their billing systems I frankly have trust issues now and am not comfortable giving that level of control to someone else.

 

[Zebra]

They won't tell what book I'm reading, haha!
So do all the energy suppliers do that thing of hiking up your direct debit so that you end up hundreds in credit? I'm with Good Energy, and as I said, am resisting getting a smart meter.

 

[Flyfisher]

I dislike smart meters for two reasons:

1) The design of them is poor, unreliable and the early ones rely on 2G mobile phone networks that are being switched off this year. Not all implementations of the standard are equal often meaning when you switch supplier your meter becomes dumb again.

2) A smart meter allows for a supplier to shut off electricity to your property remotely without having to visit the property - having had run ins with utility companies threatening to cut me off due to problems in their billing systems I frankly have trust issues now and am not comfortable giving that level of control to someone else.

1) Agreed - the initial design and rollout of smart meters was very flawed (typical government initiative? ) and resulted in new providers not being able transfer them. Absolutely ridiculous. But I'm pretty sure that was fixed in the second generation smart meters (smets2?) so no one having one fitted these days should have supplier change issues. But even if they did, it would not be any worse than having an old style 'dumb' meter, so no real downside in that respect. I also agree that the display unit that comes with a smart meter is not great and unless it's very close to the smart meter it won't actually work. Mine doesn't work because the meter is in a detached garage and therefore out of range. However, Octopus offers a free 'widget' that connects to a smart meter and relays real-time usage information to a phone app over the home wifi, which is far more functional than just a smart meter. But all these monitoring options are entirely optional and not necessary if you don't like or want such things.

2) I agree it might be technically possible to cut off electricity via a smart meter but I'm pretty sure it's not a simple process as far as the providers are concerned as there are a whole raft of regulations concerning such action. Similar to cutting off a water supply, which I believe is even more onerous and may even require court orders. I understand the desire to 'be in control' of things, but as I mentioned in a previous post we're all highly dependent on others for pretty much everything that we need to live comfortably, so how much 'control' do we ultimately have anyway, other than paying our own way?

 

[malcolm]

Smart meters are intended to help align demand for electricity to the supply. Ultimately the price of electricity will be expensive when demand is higher than is easy to supply, and cheaper when supply is higher then demand. Day and night can be done without a smart meter so this will be multiple price changes during the day.

Without a smart meter the price is going to be fixed at the expensive rate as the providers will have no idea when we are using it and will assume we are using all of it at the very most expensive time. I'm nearing the point when I'll let them fit one.

 

[Flyfisher]

Exactly, which is why I'm getting 4-6 variable hours of 7p electricity most days (typically during the afternoons and evenings) in addition to the fixed 6 hours overnight and how my average cost of electricity is around 10p per unit instead of my peak rate of 28p.

Another important point is that many of us here, being listed, will have difficulties with roof-mounted PV panels but may not appreciate that home batteries on their own can be very effective at reducing electricity costs by allowing grid consumption to be limited to only the low-cost periods throughout the day. Basically, the grid runs the house and charges the batteries when the price is low and batteries run the house when the price is high and nothing is drawn from the grid. Such a system also has the advantage that it is independent of the weather. PV panels are great in the summer but their output drops considerably in the winter months. Anyway, just a thought, I'm not on commission or anything

 

[Stevers]

So Energy have been my Gas and Electric supplier for the last five years and am I am very happy with them. My clear and easy to understand invoice today (from my own monthly readings) has me £1 in credit. I run a speadsheet to monitor my usage and that feeds into a running total of what my monthly debit would be based on the previous 12 months usage and current rates and it's uncanny how So Energy track it when they propose a revision to my DD.

I have been pestered to have a smart meter, but last time I told them (with quite a lot of made up 'enthusiasm') that I would get a smart meter when I go over to battery storage at which point I would need the sort of variable tariff that Octopus do, that So Energy doesn't offer. Someone may have put a note on my account after that as I've not been bothered since!

 

[Cubist]

A smart meter allows for a supplier to shut off electricity to your property remotely without having to visit the property

Now that's an otherwise undiscussed feature I can get behind and would fully support. Keeping hospitals, clinics, doctors surgeries and the other emergency services operational and effective over a maybe protracted energy shortage would be a vital capability and I for one would be more than happy to bear outages during such times. Sadly, I suspect that this may be open to abuse and the means to police it may be too expensive for the providers.

They won't tell what book I'm reading, haha!

It's clear that you @Zebra have never been encouraged to abandon physical printed matter. I on the other hand, and being a predominantly bed-time reader, and also after years of having my nose disjointed and slumbers disturbed by a falling tome and more than a few bruised arms, ribs and shins courtesy of a light shy First Ladies remonstrations, was encouraged to move to an eReader. The iPad soon proved a trifle bulky and much more dangerous than a copy of War and Peace and was quickly replaced with an Amazon device - both of which provide details of my reading (and other habits?) to Bezos and the Jobs heirs much to my annoyance.

Unfortunately the First Lady remained unimpressed when I adopted the Amazon device as she felt its display to be 'too bright' and volunteered to show me how to reduce the same. The device became an ex Amazon Reader in a heap of bits when she demonstrated how quickly that light could be dimmed when its bashed on a convenient bed-post!