Heating fuel access problems

[Chillygirl]

I bought my 1750s terraced timber-framed cottage just over a year ago. It had previously been heated by oil-fired boiler but people i purchased from had removed this and had electric panel heaters installed. There are 2x multifuel burners downstairs. I want to install central heating but only access for oil or calor gas is through the cottage. There is no access at the rear and no front garden. Im trying to avoid electric due to running costs and dont want heat pump (dont think this would be suitable for me anyway). I have 4 beds and am having the rear kitchen extension re-built next year. My neighbours (end cottage) use oil - could i apply for access across their garden? Any other alternatives suggested? Thank you.

 

[Kearn]

As in the oil pipe would have to run through the building to refill?

It’s a once, twice a year occurrence, so that inconvenience (if feasible) may be outweighed by the benefits. However, whether it’s allowed is a different story…

 

[Chillygirl]

As in the oil pipe would have to run through the building to refill?

It’s a once, twice a year occurrence, so that inconvenience (if feasible) may be outweighed by the benefits. However, whether it’s allowed is a different story…

Yes it originally connected up through the front wall and ran through house. Not an ideal situation. Ive asked LPG consultants if possible to have cylinders delivered but they wont take them through the house. Im trying to future secure this cottage to keep it as environmentally compliant as possible as i am 71 and will probably have max 5-10 years before having to move again, so dont want to make the wrong decisions now.

 

[CliffordPope]

As in the oil pipe would have to run through the building to refill?

It’s a once, twice a year occurrence, so that inconvenience (if feasible) may be outweighed by the benefits. However, whether it’s allowed is a different story…

Some friends of ours have a drive that is not suitable for access by the oil delivery lorry. They have a permanent pipe from the tank to a filler point near the front gate. Something similar could surely easily be run through the house?

 

[Chillygirl]

Ive been told that the oil companies wont now run through the house - they wouldnt be able to see the oil tank at the back while filling. Same applies to LPG.

 

[a twig]

Related thread here:

Supply to oil tank

I live in a lovely predominantly stone built village. Our houses are all built in a jumble, a land registry nightmare. There seems to be a new regulation about stopping the delivery of oil through terraced houses. This is making life difficult and winter has arrived! What are we supposed to...

www.periodproperty.co.uk

 

[paulc]

I want to install central heating but only access for oil or calor gas is through the cottage. There is no access at the rear and no front garden. Im trying to avoid electric due to running costs and dont want heat pump (dont think this would be suitable for me anyway).

If you are worried that a heat pump is expensive to run, I'd urge you to look at some real data. This site has a collection of stats on a number of installations: https://heatpumpmonitor.org/ - On the right tariff, many of them work out cheaper to run than gas or oil.
But not having an existing oil/gas boiler, I don't think you would qualify for the £7500 boiler upgrade scheme grant.

 

[Flyfisher]

I've also heard that oil companies will no longer deliver via a pipe throught the house. I think the regulations changed some years ago and also put a limit on how far the tank could be from the delivery point. The only sure way to find out is to contact a delivery company and ask them.

As for gaining access across a neighbour's garden, again you'd have to confirm this was physically acceptable to oil delivery companies but it would be an added complication in terms of permission. You might get on well with the current neighbours who might be very helpful and allow permission on an informal basis, but it's possible they might move out and new neighbours would not be so amenable, or even the existing neighbours might change their minds, for whatever reason.

The only way to secure a legal right of access would be to negotiate some form of wayleave agreement, which would normally be drawn up by a solicitor and involve a sum of money being paid in return for a permanent right of access. But just because such things are possible, I wouldn't hold out much hope that the neighbour would agree to such a permanent right because it could complicate any future sale of their house.

If you're only thinking of a 10 year solution then electric heating might not work out as expensive as you might first think, especially when taking into account the capital costs of a new boiler and radiator system. Also, electric storage heaters powered from a cheap rate tariff could reduce energy costs as well, for relatively little capital outlay.

 

[Cubist]

I think, given the challenges you're facing with both oil or gas driven systems and the physical logistics involved in using the multi-fuel burners, you may be wise to stick with an all electric heating system. However, there may be some advantage for you in swapping some of the panel radiators you have at present for a couple of night storage heaters that run on the old Economy 7 tariff. As I understand it, if your home does not have this service available you can apply for it from the relevant service provider. Also, if your home is capable, you may also be able to reduce or otherwise off-set some of your electricity costs through the installation of a small solar PV array for which you may also qualify for a grant to cover some/all of the installation costs.

 

[Glenn586]

I'd second this. The night time Kwh rate on Octopus is 7p which works out slightly cheaper than LPG and Oil. You could also add some battery storage and charge them overnight on the cheap rate.

 

[Chillygirl]

Thank you. Yes, think ive sort of come to the conclusion that leccy is the way to go. Have had Fischer around today to survey - suggested new panel heaters but cost for 8 would be £14k!!!! Ive asked them to quote for boiler too. May well investigate storage heaters as well.

 

[Cubist]

Thank you. Yes, think ive sort of come to the conclusion that leccy is the way to go. Have had Fischer around today to survey - suggested new panel heaters but cost for 8 would be £14k!!!! Ive asked them to quote for boiler too. May well investigate storage heaters as well.

With that kind of number from Fischer for just 8 panel radiators I would be giving some serious consideration to a small electric boiler to drive a wet CH system. More disruptive perhaps during installation but capital investment may be considerably lower and include a Smart Controller that heats only the areas/rooms you need when you need it.

 

[Chillygirl]

Exactly how im starting to think. The house will be ripped apart when the replacement extension is built next year and new floors, ceilings and insulation put in so might be a good option. Meanwhile thinking of a calor-gas space heater as additional to existing panels/burners.

 

[a twig]

Just out of interest what is your aversion to a heat pump based on?

 

[paulc]

Thank you. Yes, think ive sort of come to the conclusion that leccy is the way to go. Have had Fischer around today to survey - suggested new panel heaters but cost for 8 would be £14k!!!! Ive asked them to quote for boiler too. May well investigate storage heaters as well.

Noooo... Not Fischer - Have heard tales of their hard sell and bogus claims that their heaters are more efficient than everyone else. They've been told off a few times by Trading Standards and the ASA.. If you are going plain electric heating, you'd be far better off going for something like Dimplex high retention storage heaters. And don't go for a wet electric boiler. That is probably the most inefficient form of heating to have.

 

[Flyfisher]

. . . . And don't go for a wet electric boiler. That is probably the most inefficient form of heating to have.

Most inefficient or most expensive? It's a pedantic point but I've always thought of electric heating as being the most efficient form of heating, in the sense that 100% of every kW is converted into heat, unlike other forms of generating heat such as burning something and losing a proportion of the heat to the outside world in the form of flue/chimney gases and heat.

 

[Stevers]

Most inefficient or most expensive?

Thermal power stations are only about 40% efficient due to the laws of thermodynamics, so there's a lot of waste heat going up cooling towers. Transmission and distribution causes further losses in the wires (more waste heat). There are the costs of keeping the system balanced, and in maintaining all those wires and telegraph poles out to the consumer, plus all the admin costs of metering and billing. Green energy isn't going to be any cheaper as everything needs maintenance and then replacement and there will be rent to pay on land based generation. Ever wondered who makes money out of green energy generation - it's land owners and corporations!

Combined heat and power is good, but there are relatively few consumers of heat that need it all year round that you can site near your power stations.

 

[Flyfisher]

Fair points about the end-to-end efficiencies. I was thinking about the conversion efficiency of different sources once they've entered the home.

I've got my overall electricity cost down to an average of about 8p/kWh with a combination of solar PV, home batteries and an EV, which is not much more than the 6p/kWh I pay for mains gas, especially when considering that the gas boiler is less efficient than an electric heater (in the home).

Incidentally, I included the EV as a cost reduction measure because it means I can use the Octopus "Intelligent Go' tariff. This gives a guaranteed 6 hours overnight at 7p/kWh but when the EV is plugged into the home charger, Octopus also adds additional hours throughout the day when demand is low or green generation is high, whether or not the car needs charging. During these low-rate times, the home battery is disabled, which saves its capacity for the hours when the rate is high (around 27p/kWh) meaning I draw very little grid power at the high rate, even during the winter months when PV generation drops.

 

[Stevers]

I've got my overall electricity cost down to an average of about 8p/kWh

That's interesting, would you ever be able to heat with electricity at that cost using that sort of setup?

Storage heaters never used to anticipate how much heat to store for the upcoming weather, and could then be pretty much exhausted by the evening peak, but that could be improved with better materials and computer control.

 

[DaveG]

I’m no expert in this stuff but am in the process of trying to get planning approval for a solar and battery setup.
From what I’m told, these newer systems work with AI which makes on the go computations on your personal demand, even looking at the upcoming weather forecasts!