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Anonymous
Guest
checkmate to the co.
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Anonymous
Guest
Without seeing before and after, I can't be specific, as a lot, IMHO, would depend on how important the door is to the overall appearance of the building and whether it could be partially glazed without having a negative impact, but:
When you say "like for like", do you mean the previous door was glazed?
If it wasn't, and the replacement is glazed, then it's not "like for like", is it?
If it was glazed before, then what's the problem?
Have you made a retrospective application to retain the new door, using your "H+S"argument?
How many people have hurt themselves, and how often, because the room is dark? If people managed OK for 200+ years, I suspect your "health and safety" argument won't wash.
Sorry, but there are limits to my sympathy for homeowners (especially those who type with the CAPS LOCK ON ALL THE TIME)
When you say "like for like", do you mean the previous door was glazed?
If it wasn't, and the replacement is glazed, then it's not "like for like", is it?
If it was glazed before, then what's the problem?
Have you made a retrospective application to retain the new door, using your "H+S"argument?
How many people have hurt themselves, and how often, because the room is dark? If people managed OK for 200+ years, I suspect your "health and safety" argument won't wash.
Sorry, but there are limits to my sympathy for homeowners (especially those who type with the CAPS LOCK ON ALL THE TIME)
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Anonymous
Guest
The door wasn't glazed before we only replaced the two top panels after my son hurt himself.
In light of an enforcement notice I don't see much point in applying for retrospective permission.
We will appeal when we receive the enforcment notice. Thanks for your comments anyway.
We have been praised by many people including councillors for the huge amount of work we have done on the house so disappointing to come unstuck over this issue.
In light of an enforcement notice I don't see much point in applying for retrospective permission.
We will appeal when we receive the enforcment notice. Thanks for your comments anyway.
We have been praised by many people including councillors for the huge amount of work we have done on the house so disappointing to come unstuck over this issue.
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Anonymous
Guest
Don't wait for the enforcement notice, apply for retrospective consent, make sure your local councillor asks for the application to be considered by the Planning Committee, not dealt with under delegated powers.
Make your case to sympathetic councillors.
I don't know why I'm telling you all this, I'm just undermining myself at some future date ;o)
Make your case to sympathetic councillors.
I don't know why I'm telling you all this, I'm just undermining myself at some future date ;o)
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Anonymous
Guest
OK Gareth thank you.
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Anonymous
Guest
Gareth. I'm sorry, but that wasn't me who posted earlier saying Mendip. I'm in Mid-Suffolk. I've just re-checked the Mid-Suffolk council website, and the wording they use there is much as I remember it when I enquired a couple of years ago. The phrase they use is "Control over a Listed Building applies to all works, both external and internal, that would affect the 'special architectural/historic' character of the building. This applies whether or not the particular feature concerned, is specifically mentioned in the list description." Unfortunately, the CO concerned has taken it upon himself to interpret the 'special architectural/historic character' of the building to include all of it's evolution both good and bad up to the arbitrary date where it was listed in the 1970's.
From the many posts I've seen on this site, it seems there are decent pragmatic COs out there, however, we don't have one of them! Do you fancy a transfer to Mid-Suffolk?
From the many posts I've seen on this site, it seems there are decent pragmatic COs out there, however, we don't have one of them! Do you fancy a transfer to Mid-Suffolk?
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Anonymous
Guest
I can only say that my experience of CO's has been nothing like yours, Eddy.
I have found that, provided you take the trouble to discuss your plans (and the reasons for them) with the CO before you make a formal application, that you listen to what he/she has to say and put forward your own needs and wishes in a reasonable manner, you will find the CO very helpful.
That's not meant to imply that he/she will always "nod" through everything you want to do. But, provided you're not asking for something that is completely against the spirit of listing, you'll usually be able to find a compromise solution to any problem.
But if you appraoch your LBC application treating the CO as "the enemy", then you will invariably end up with problems.
Well, that's my views and experiences, anyway.
I have found that, provided you take the trouble to discuss your plans (and the reasons for them) with the CO before you make a formal application, that you listen to what he/she has to say and put forward your own needs and wishes in a reasonable manner, you will find the CO very helpful.
That's not meant to imply that he/she will always "nod" through everything you want to do. But, provided you're not asking for something that is completely against the spirit of listing, you'll usually be able to find a compromise solution to any problem.
But if you appraoch your LBC application treating the CO as "the enemy", then you will invariably end up with problems.
Well, that's my views and experiences, anyway.
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Anonymous
Guest
David, I'm sure you're right. But in all walks of life there are good ones and bad ones, and unfortunately I came up against one that was rotten to the core. As I have described elsewhere in this thread, I did discuss the changes I wanted to make with the CO, and Gareth seems to agree with me that they weren't unreasonable requests. However, I was told I would be wasting my time applying for listed consent as it would be blocked by the CO.
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Anonymous
Guest
No argument with you, at all. There are good and bad window cleaners, brain surgeons, CO's and dwile flonkers. I just felt that Eddy's sweeping generalisation needed a balancing view.
Sorry to hear about your problems.
Sorry to hear about your problems.
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Anonymous
Guest
David, I've just noticed that you are in Suffolk too. Please can you let me know which council area you are in where you have these reasonable CO's? Maybe I should just move house!
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Anonymous
Guest
Gareth, I've just read your profile and seen you are a CO in East-Anglia since 2003. Please tell me you are in Mid-Suffolk, and that all my problems are now over!
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Anonymous
Guest
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Anonymous
Guest
Look it up??!! Are you telling me that you didn't know what it is?
I understand that it's next in line to be accepted as an official Olympic sport.
I understand that it's next in line to be accepted as an official Olympic sport.
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Anonymous
Guest
What makes you think I'm in Suffolk?!
I'd rather not mention my district council, because it will only cause mass migration into the area, clog up all the nice peaceful roads and cause massive property price inflation! Anyway, I didn't really mean just this area - I've found the same with CO's in several parts of the country (having so far lived in and renovated 4 listed buildings).
Just lucky, I guess!
I'd rather not mention my district council, because it will only cause mass migration into the area, clog up all the nice peaceful roads and cause massive property price inflation! Anyway, I didn't really mean just this area - I've found the same with CO's in several parts of the country (having so far lived in and renovated 4 listed buildings).
Just lucky, I guess!
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Anonymous
Guest
Sorry but I have to admit I am from overseas. It takes some time for the latest news to carry to the Isle of Wight. BTW whats this stuff I keep hearing about...cement is it called? Whats that do then? New fangled rubbish!
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Anonymous
Guest
Who you kidding? It comes from Portland, just along the coast from you.
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Anonymous
Guest
Thank you for your responses and interest and I apologise for insulting any COs – it wasn’t my intention, just a reflection of how irritated I felt.
The facts then… I am not a pvc double-glazing fan, and that’s why I live in a period property. I may be ignorant, but only of things I don’t know about, not in my manner. I live in a small GII stone-wall thatched cottage, early C18th. Probably hundreds in the country – 2 up, 2 down. The cottage was “improved” in the 60s; suck your teeth; rear 1-storey flat roofed extension to house bathroom and toilet, crittal windows in places where there were no windows originally (side and rear), relocation of the staircase from internal winder to crossing the width of the house and punching out through the original wall into aforesaid extension, an extra doorway also punched out from the kitchen. An ‘improvement’ I suspect to the previous owner, who had an outside loo and probably bathed in front of the fire.
We had several conversations over a period of years with our local COs; initially they were keen to see the current extension gone, but now they are ambivalent.
We have been told to deal with the condensation from the windows in the kitchen in the winter by locking them open a crack. The condensation is so bad it leaves pools of water on the windowsills and is rotting the wooden window frames (c. early C20th from historic photos).
The steam from the kitchen is also causing damage to the original beams, joists, lathe and plaster. In short the cottage has a pretty front face, but very little of the original remains internally or at the rear.
I have a very large garden, plenty of space so any extension would not dominate. Yes, I went for my dream extension, it’s only human to start big and negotiate down but it’s not huge - I am only looking to remove flat roofed 1-storey extension and add 1-storey pitched roof extension with upstairs 3rd bedroom and bathroom & move kitchen into new extension. This would mean taking out current staircase (60s), removing internal wall in current kitchen (60s), blocking up one rear doorway (60s) and cutting into thatch above purlin. Ridge height of new extension would be lower than existing ridge, so in effect it would be hidden. Minimal disruption. It would also move current extension away from boundary line and enable proper maintenance of flank wall currently in poor state.
The feedback? Any extension would need to have a roof of slate or clay tiles, not thatch (they don’t allow extensions to be roofed in thatch – local policy), the walls however could be in stone to match. The pitch of the new extension must not cut into the thatch anywhere (“the original fabric must be retained”) – the cottage was empty for 10 years and our thatcher removed almost all of the thatch on the rear when re-done in the 90s (the slope had been getting shallower and need steepening again). The pitch of the roof had to be between 40-45 degrees to mimic pre-war buildings locally. When I questioned which war was he said WW2. This seems like an arbitrary date-line - this house was built pre-Napoleonic Wars!). Or it could be flat roofed in lead. Dormer windows should be different to the eye-brow type I have, but instead he would prefer to see pre-war design.
In addition he suggested linking the new extension to the existing property via a glass link, cutting into the original stone wall (Grand Designs?). Finally he wouldn’t allow at all an ‘upstairs’ bathroom or bedroom in the new extension.
He said have “respect for the property with non-matching materials”!?
Aren’t buildings organic? Shouldn’t they grow with time? Is it too much to ask that we want to add a sympathetic extension that would also do away with the terrible work of 40 years ago? I found the CO most unhelpful. Comments please.
The facts then… I am not a pvc double-glazing fan, and that’s why I live in a period property. I may be ignorant, but only of things I don’t know about, not in my manner. I live in a small GII stone-wall thatched cottage, early C18th. Probably hundreds in the country – 2 up, 2 down. The cottage was “improved” in the 60s; suck your teeth; rear 1-storey flat roofed extension to house bathroom and toilet, crittal windows in places where there were no windows originally (side and rear), relocation of the staircase from internal winder to crossing the width of the house and punching out through the original wall into aforesaid extension, an extra doorway also punched out from the kitchen. An ‘improvement’ I suspect to the previous owner, who had an outside loo and probably bathed in front of the fire.
We had several conversations over a period of years with our local COs; initially they were keen to see the current extension gone, but now they are ambivalent.
We have been told to deal with the condensation from the windows in the kitchen in the winter by locking them open a crack. The condensation is so bad it leaves pools of water on the windowsills and is rotting the wooden window frames (c. early C20th from historic photos).
The steam from the kitchen is also causing damage to the original beams, joists, lathe and plaster. In short the cottage has a pretty front face, but very little of the original remains internally or at the rear.
I have a very large garden, plenty of space so any extension would not dominate. Yes, I went for my dream extension, it’s only human to start big and negotiate down but it’s not huge - I am only looking to remove flat roofed 1-storey extension and add 1-storey pitched roof extension with upstairs 3rd bedroom and bathroom & move kitchen into new extension. This would mean taking out current staircase (60s), removing internal wall in current kitchen (60s), blocking up one rear doorway (60s) and cutting into thatch above purlin. Ridge height of new extension would be lower than existing ridge, so in effect it would be hidden. Minimal disruption. It would also move current extension away from boundary line and enable proper maintenance of flank wall currently in poor state.
The feedback? Any extension would need to have a roof of slate or clay tiles, not thatch (they don’t allow extensions to be roofed in thatch – local policy), the walls however could be in stone to match. The pitch of the new extension must not cut into the thatch anywhere (“the original fabric must be retained”) – the cottage was empty for 10 years and our thatcher removed almost all of the thatch on the rear when re-done in the 90s (the slope had been getting shallower and need steepening again). The pitch of the roof had to be between 40-45 degrees to mimic pre-war buildings locally. When I questioned which war was he said WW2. This seems like an arbitrary date-line - this house was built pre-Napoleonic Wars!). Or it could be flat roofed in lead. Dormer windows should be different to the eye-brow type I have, but instead he would prefer to see pre-war design.
In addition he suggested linking the new extension to the existing property via a glass link, cutting into the original stone wall (Grand Designs?). Finally he wouldn’t allow at all an ‘upstairs’ bathroom or bedroom in the new extension.
He said have “respect for the property with non-matching materials”!?
Aren’t buildings organic? Shouldn’t they grow with time? Is it too much to ask that we want to add a sympathetic extension that would also do away with the terrible work of 40 years ago? I found the CO most unhelpful. Comments please.
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Anonymous
Guest
I did and 'the facts' are posted in Battle with COs. It 's the inconsistency that's frustrating and the lack of something tangible to work with.
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Anonymous
Guest
Oh dear sniff, sniff - my 'facts' are under battle with COs
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Anonymous
Guest
We were allowed to knock out a 1960s fireplace to reveal original ingle-nook. It's this arbitrary point in time where change can either be reversed or frozen that is so frustrating. Many smaller houses would be obselete without their modern changes.