Grade II cottage renovation cost estimate

[kourosh]

Hello all,

My first post here, so please bear with me and thanks in advance!

I am contemplating buying a grade II listed small cottage, parts of which probably date from the 16th or early 17th century. The cottage is essentially derelict and needs total renovation.

This is a single story timber-framed thatched cottage with two rooms at ground level and two in the attaic. There is a much later lean-to with the roof collapsed, which was previously used as the bathroom.

In terms of renovation, the cottage needs EVERYTHING done, including likely repairs to foundations, walls, chimneys, roof, all the services, etc, etc.

Below are a few photographs to show the general (v poor!) state of the cottage.

Can someone please give me some (very approximate) indications as to the likely costs of the various aspects of the renovation? I am only asking about a very approximate figure to guide me as to whether or not I should pursue the project and get a survey done, etc.

Many thanks,

Kourosh

 

[Penners]

Kourosh - welcome to the forum.

Much as people here would like to try and help you with cost estimates, to be honest that's virtually impossible. In a house as badly deteriorated as that one, it's impossible to know what works will be needed on the basis of a few external photos and your brief description. Even an expert surveyor who visited the building would probably have considerable trouble estimating the costs of a full refurb with any accuracy.

One of the most expensive single jobs would probably be the thatching. Thatchers will price by the "square" - that is an area of roof 10 ft by 10ft, and one square will cost you around £800 or so. Measure the area of each face of the roof and use that figure as a rule-of-thumb calculation. So - at a wild guesstimate based on your photos, I'd say that a full re-thatch could cost you £15000 or more.

As to the other works - how much of it are you prepared to do yourself? Do you have any knowledge or experience of repairing a timber frame, plastering, brickwork... building in general? You could certainly save yourself tens of thousands of pounds on that project if you DIY.

But remember that you can't DIY the electrics these days - it's not permitted. The cost of a full electrical installation in a small cottage like that? Oooh - maybe £3000 - £4000 (but I'm out of date with electrical costs, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable will confirm or correct that).

But for the structure - how long is a piece of string? If you DIY, and the timber frame isn't too bad, you could get away with under £10,000, but if the roof timbers all need replacing too, probably more.

I'm afraid those wild guesses are about as far as I can go, and as I've said, they are very wild. If you want to get more accurate help on this forum, I suggest you try to categorise the works that are needed, and then post the clearest possible description of each category. That way, specialists in each skill might be able to give you a clearer idea of what you'd be taking on.

Bottom line - whatever you finally estimate as the possible total cost, double it. Ditto the time that the project will take. With period buildings that's a principle that (I think) most people on this forum will subscribe to.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Two hundred and thirty-five thousand pounds and seventy five pence!

I agree with Penners on the thatching- we costed up new thatch rooves last Spring (though in the end didn't get a thatch house). Mostly they were around 20 k to re-roove.

2-50k for a kitchen, depending on how rock star you need it.

Likewise for bathroom.

10k for us to connect to mains water (but we have the small matter of a pumping station to build and a few fields to traverse). Electricity must be a similarly huge cost.

I'm afraid I don't know much about other costs, but if you are paying workmen to do it you will need a very deep pocket indeed.

Our surveyor advised our insurance company that the rebuild cost of this house is 350k if it were to come to some dire grief. He might have just picked that figure out of the air though! I reckon we need to spend around 100k to put this house in the 21st century with water, a road, a new roof, rebuilding walls after removing cement render etc etc ...

Good luck, it sounds like a nightmare to me, but I'm full of admiration for those that take this on.

 

[Jon Maine]

A fair indication for a quality repair job would be something like £1500 to £2000 per square metre of floor area. depending on how much you do yourself that figure could drop substantially.

It is lovely and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[kourosh]

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

Apologies for the lack of details in my original description, but what I mentioned is more or less the information I have available. The propoerty is up for auction and can only be inspected externally. My budget for the renovation would be about £100,000 max.

If the concensus is that this level of renovation to a reasonable standard cannot be done for under £100,000, then I guess I should keep looking for something else? My wife and I have been looking for the right property for quite a while!

Incidentally, I do not really have the time to do much DIY, so most of the work would have to be contracted out...

Kourosh

 

[biffvernon]

I'd be happy to buy it if I had a spare £100k to spend on it above the purchase price. That looks very do-able.

(Penners, can you not DIY the electrics and then get it signed off by a qualified spark?)

 

[skier-hughes]

Looking at it I'd have thought £100k would be swallowed up quite easily if you do it correctly.
Do it on the cheap and you may get close.
Do it well and you could triple that figure.

I doubt you'd recoup the money you spend doing it well if you came to resell it.

 

[Cloudscape]

The propoerty is up for auction and can only be inspected externally.

In that case, I'd be sticking my nose at every window, armed with a camera to get at least some idea of what's inside. If it was a "normal" house, you could probably say, "What the hey. What's the cost of totally renewing the inside?" But this house isn't "normal". It's listed and you might find yourself involved in some serious conservation/restoration work. Is the local CO familiar with the building? A quick call and you could ascertain that.

It's a heart/head thing. In other words, it's a lovely money pit. Only you know if you want the house enough. Would the house be as charming and tantalising in good order (tamed) as it is as a wreck. I only say that because I'm trying to get a grip on how the sheer shabbiness of my house is part of what makes it special (to me).

You mention foundations. Has the house got any?

 

[Jon Maine]

It could be possible to do this for your target figure, you would have to have a full specification done by a conservation architect and get listed building consent for some of the works possibly too. Depending on how long ago it was inhabited you may have to get planning permission too to restore residential use. None of the above are anything other than hoops to jump through, you should get all approved as long as you are sensitive.

Probably a conservation architect will charge 12% of contract value for full service, i.e. design, specification, obtaining tenders and supervising work.

Perhaps you should contact an architect or two to see if they will give you a free consultation and site visit as they could well be keen for the work. If so an experienced local knowledge could be gained as these things can be very regional.

Good luck, it looks great and it looks like you have enough time to get some advice before the auction.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Guesstimate based on the photos - 100k should be enough for a good, conservative, repair. Nowhere near enough if you want a modernised house with "period features" - in which case you shouldn't buy it anyway (though some twit with those aspirations probably will).

OK, found the list description:
GV II

Cottage, possibly early C16. Timber framed and plastered with
local brick walls and large stack to east. Pantiled roof to
lean to. Reed thatch. One storey and attic; original two unit
plan with open hall, possibly extended to east. One dormer
casement window, two fixed light ground floor windows and
boarded door. Interior. Exposed timber frame with clunch
internal partition, original floor to room to west with joists
laid flat; C19 floor inserted in hall. Large inglenook hearth
late C16 or early C17.

It is completely lovely, and on a nice spot, but only for someone who goes into this with their eyes wide open, and no illusions. 150k might be a better estimate, given the bargain (I was tempted to say, "knock-down" estimate).

 

[Ushy M]

And remember that the thatch will be an ongoing expense to budget for. Reed will last longer than longstraw which is on our house (rough guess 25-30 years), but the ridge will still need replacing every 10-15 which will be a few grand. Good luck if you go ahead - as Cloudscape suggests, it's a lovely moneypit!

 

[Penners]

At a maximum budget of £100k, personally I wouldn't take it on unless I was going to DIY a substantial part of the project.

The problem with repairing a badly deteriorated building like is not just the problems you can see - it's the ones you can't see. And, as everyone here will confirm, these things can snowball. You want to run a water pipe through a wall, so you drill a hole. This exposes some badly rotted timber, so you cut that out to repair it. This exposes some crumbling bricks in the plinth, so you...etc. etc.

If you have £100k now, and can perhaps boost that with some more cash injections later, then maybe it's worth taking on. But at £100k absolute maximum, plus little or no DIY, personally I wouldn't risk it.

Biff - yes, you are of course correct about the electrics.

 

[Carol]

You have had lots of pragmatic replies but no-one has mentioned the main period property issue.
How much do you love it?
You can live in what most people call a wreck quite happily for a few or even many years until you can afford to do the non-essentials if you love the building enough.

In our experience, take all quotes for repairs and add 50% for contingencies, failed beams, infestation etc, you may or may not need this extra.

It does look lovely, and for £100 k you could probably do the important stuff, roof, electrics and plumbing, but be prepared to do some of it yourself as your skills improve and not have the designer kitchen for a few years!

 

[JoceAndChris]

How much do you love it?

A very good point. I think that when it finally came to buying this house we wouldn't have cared if we'd been told the whole thing was about to subside down the hill, the fields around were used by the local bongo-playing association and the spinney was infested with grizzly bears! And despite all the shocks of escalating costs, the house's devaluation, the hard transition from smart girl-about-town to solitary frump in overalls I wouldn't change a thing!

But I'm not living in a wreck, or taking on the extraordinary challenge of rescuing a house from dereliction... but I won't get those particular rewards either. The pride, the glory, of the accomplishment! I can't speak with any experience of what it must feel like to take a poor neglected Cinderella and turn her to a queen... but there are people on this forum who've done just that and it must feel bloody fantastic!

 

[kourosh]

Thanks all,

I have indeed been in touch with the CO in the area, who are quite familiar with the property and have been very helpful.

The cottage, as it is, is definitely not habitable, although according to some of the neighbours the owner used to live in one of the rooms until about 8 months ago or so!!

I suppose my motivation for cosidering this renovation might be a bit different to some. IF my wife and I did embrak on this project, it would not actually be for us to live in it (it is too small), but would be a lovely second home. So essentially there would be no hurry is completing the project and a time scale of 2-3 years would be about right. We do not particularly want to 'make money' from the renovation, as we would not be selling any time soon, but would think of it more as a longterm investment. However, we definitely do not want to lose money either, and I suppose it would be right to consider lost interest etc of any sums spent on it.

In line with the suggestions on the forum, my very approximate previous quotes varied between £1250 and £2500 per sqm. The Cottage is 80 sqm approx. Taking the average of £2000 per sqm, and considering the renovated cottage would be worth much less than £200k, I guess one could be in a position of having to wait for property prices to go up for years before breaking even...

Lots of food for thought, and thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Kourosh

 

[Penners]

So essentially there would be no hurry is completing the project and a time scale of 2-3 years would be about right.

Just remember that, if you speak 'renovationese', 2-3 years translates as 5-6 years. :wink:

 

[AMc]

I'm trying to be positive, but having lived next door to my renovation in progress for 6 months with builders I trust I still have to make choices almost every day and fix problems that grind the job to a halt. It took more than 2 years to get all the plans, permissions and contractors in place to start and I was only working part time! My budget is £150K for roughly 70m2

My subcontractors also worked on a renovation up the road with clients in London. Problems with communication, decisions and payment have ground that job to a halt on many, many occasions for weeks at a time. If you're not planning on living there or even near while the renovation goes on then you are going to need to contract an architect and builder with conservation and period building expertise. You are going to need ones you really, really trust. If they don't know what they're doing they're likely to do permanent damage. If they do know what they're doing you're still going to have to trust them to make decisions that you're happy to live with. As a listed building owner you have a greater responsibility for what is done to the house than a regular householder. As I understand in the worst possible case you can end up criminally liable for things done to it by your contractors.

If you want to spend your free time on visiting a building site for the next couple of years and you're really genuinely OK with that then I would consider it. In the end I'm sure it will be a beautiful place to escape to.
If on the other hand you want to go to a holiday cottage and have a holiday in the next couple of years then I would look for something £100K more that someone else has done the bulk of the work on.

The auction is going to give a very good indication of what the local building community thinks of the project and I would try and get at least an opinion from a local builder before you walk in with your cheque book open.

Good luck!

 

[kourosh]

Thanks AMc,

Very wise words, which I will consider carefully.

I will post an update once I have been to the auction in a couple of weeks (I am going to go, even if I decide against bidding).

 

[Jon Maine]

Of course you may get the inexperienced who wishes to pay over the odds thinking that they will get away with spending 50k on it whilst having to get subbies in.

 

[kourosh]

Of course you may get the inexperienced who wishes to pay over the odds thinking that they will get away with spending 50k on it whilst having to get subbies in.

Well, an update everyone:

The cottage sold at auction for £134,000 (I clearly did not buy it!). The guide price, incidentally, was £40-£60k.

I wonder if someone else on the forum was the buyer :? I wish the buyer good luck.

Thank you all for your advice nonetheless