Floor tiles? Pamments?

[fluffytail10]

Having come upon a bit of spare cash, we are looking to replace our concrete and MDF ground floors with tiles or pamments. In the old coal store under the stairs are a few tiles/pamments left exposed. I would like to replace the floors with similar tiles as I guess these are original. However, I'm not sure what they are called.Are these floor bricks? pavoirs? pamments? I want to get some reclaimed ones but need to know what they're called first. They are about 22cm long, 11cm wide and about 3cm deep.

Of course I'm hoping that when we start digging away at the concrete, the rest of the original flooring will be underneath but if not it will need replacing.

Also, would laying a floor like this be possible for as a DIY job or is it too tricky? You can see they do appear to be rather damp, is there anything I can do about that? I have lowered the soil level outside, and there is no door on the cupboard so plenty of ventilation, is that white stuff mould?

thanks :wink:

 

[robgil]

There are a number of different types of pamment/floor brick that I know of.
Can you remove and clean a couple to get a better look?

 

[fluffytail10]

Well as its raining heavily outside I may as well pull up some floor....




They are just laid straight onto soil and vary in depth quite a lot. Some are orangey red bricky stuff while others are yellowy clay stuff.

 

[robgil]

They are floor bricks/pamments whatever you like to call them. :wink:
Lots of local reclamation yards will stock them , bring a sample with you.
I am doing some plastering today but will load up some photos of mine ,I have 500 of them sat in my kitchen, I got them off e bay for around 60p each but they needed a lot of work.
Once cleaned they look absolutely stunning.

Edit - you see them a lot on church floors.

 

[fluffytail10]

Thanks for that. Would it be an easy job laying them? what do you put underneath? Is there anything that would stop the damp coming through?

 

[Penners]

So far as I've been able to ascertain, pamments are usually square, floor tiles are usually hard-fired and/or glazed and floor bricks are just about anything else.

I emphasise the word "usually", because there seems to be an almost infinite number of variations of these items, depending on where, when and by whom they were made.

 

[essexbearhunter]

Pammets /pamments are still made in Norfolk.
The website has interesting advice on laying & treating them.

http://www.pamments.co.uk/

Norfolk Reclaim also deal in pamments.
http://www.norfolkreclaim.co.uk/Pages.asp?Page=5

as do Dereham Reclaim
http://www.derehamreclaim.co.uk/services.html

 

[robgil]

I'm not a huge fan of the new Norfolk pamments, they look nothing like the old pamments that I've seen.
I have three different variations of floor bricks here, I will get you a photo , I've just finished doing some plastering so I didnt get a chance to today.
Go and take a look at a few local churches , chances are they will have floor bricks in there somewhere and if they are local the chances are they will be the same as yours.

Laying them can be done many different ways, however if you have damp you need to sort it out first.
Damp can either be hidden away or you can get to its source and eliminate the cause, the latter is best as hiding it may just leave it to manifest somewhere else.
How bad is the damp?

 

[fluffytail10]

Mmm the damp.... Well the floor is covered in concretey stuff, except in the coal hole are where the soil is wet underneath the floor bricks. I'm assuming that all damp is coming up through this area as it's the only place any water could escape. I'm hoping if we remove the concretey stuff that the floor will be able to breathe again and this will stop the water vapour being forced to the coal hole.

I looked on ebay but no luck, the localiast reclaim said each brick/pamment would be £4.50 each - that's a lot more than I thought. I agree that the new ones look too square and seem to have some kind of sheen on them that I don't like.

Hoping to remove a bit of concrete floor and fingers crossed the old floor will be inderneath

 

[robgil]

£4.50 is daylight robbery , really. My local yard charges around £1 each.
I was on a job last week where someone had taken a pamment floor out of a cottage and put it in the garden, it had suffered frost damage and had to be taken up, I was cringing taking them up with a breaker and putting them in a skip, there was at least a couple of thousand of them.
The concrete sounds like a usual suspect however I would also check for other sources of water , drains , ground levels,bad drainage on a cemented over garden,leaking rainwater guttering etc etc.

Edit - I shall take some photos for you later today, I'm off to the sea side now as I've given myself the day off so it will be later this evening, I've also got a yellow and red brick floor under some latex cement type stuff, I don't think its savable but I'm hopeful.

 

[fluffytail10]

cor blimey, just pulled back the carpet and got bitten by a spider!! It was one of those little round, black ones with short legs, my finger's really swollen now.
I never knew english spiders could bite - ow

 

[fluffytail10]

Well finger has gone down, and while bf was walking dog, I used a chisel and dug a couple of holes through the concrete on both floors and found....
pamments! The previous owners told us they were long gone but there they are!!

So now, how do I remove all that concrete ? Is there a quick way? or are there long days with a chisel ahead?

 

[Moo]

How thick is the concrete?

 

[fluffytail10]

In the kitchen about 2cm, in the lounge about 3cm, though the kitchen concrete seems thinner near the edges.The top surface seems to very hard, but the stuff actually in contact with the pamments seems to be more sand-like and grainy.

 

[Penners]

It sounds as though the person who laid the concrete screed had the good sense to lay it over a layer of sand, so that it didn't stick to the pamments.

I suggest you carefully work through the concrete "crust" with a hammer and bolster. Once you have a large enough hole you may be able to slide a tool under the concrete and lever it upwards to break it out.

Whatever you do, take great care of those pamments!

 

[AMc]

If you lift your existing floor you will need to get additional bricks as you'll not manage to lift it and fit it all back down without breakages.
if you plan on close laying them again without big grouted gaps you'll need to be VERY careful about what you're mixing in as the dimensions will not be completely standard amongst yours or any handmade reclaimed replacements you find.
I had a large amount of red floor bricks and a pallet of yellows that I was hoping to intermix but that was scuppered when it turned out that they were a few millimetres diferent in width and length so couldn't be laid together.

Get the replacements in place BEFORE you rip the whole thing out - if you can't find what you need you may need to look at varying the pattern to use another type in the middle/at the edge or you may need to cut your losses and sell what you have to get a floors worth of something similar.

If you're looking for reclaimed pamments and or floor bricks you'll find them described as either or both.
Local reclaimation yards are worth a look but you'll need to go and check them out as the quality can vary massively in a single stack.
I bought one 'salmon' 9"x9" pamment that once cleaned was pillar box red.
You may also find what you're looking for on
http://www.salvo.co.uk/forsale.html

IIRC I paid £3 a pop for 9x9s which I collected myself and paid cash.

To remove the existing concrete then try and get a long flat pry bar underneath the screed and lever it upwards - concrete is much weaker in extension than compression - that should pull it up in large chunks rather than trying to bash it into pieces which is more likely to transmit stress into the bricks and crack them.

I would recommend a skilled brickie used to working with lime to relay them. I used a reputable one with skills in cement but as is turned out little knowledge of lime and as a result have spent days and days lifting rocking bricks and relaying them one by one. A cement mortar would have grabbed them and held them fast but by using lime like cement the bed dried out and the bricks didn't bond.

 

[andrew gayton]

a floor covered in concrete will be damp; mine were then they dried out once the concrete and feed bags were taken up. i only needed a small number of pamments and floor bricks to make good. left a week or so and the floor was dry. I cleaned it up, used a 1:1 dry mix of soft sand and lime for 'regrout', left it to settle, regrouted. finished whole floor with 2 coats of 1:1 raw linseed oil and proper turps. I left the cracked ones by the hearth - shows where kindling was chopped. DIY!

 

[fluffytail10]

Well thank you all for that, most useful.

A man from Texturecare is coming tomorrow to give us a quote on removing screed and making good the pamments. Has anyone heard of this company or used them?

If it's too much I will do it myself - what kind of tool do you slide underneath? I didn't quite get that bit. wouldn't a crow bar damage the underlying pamments?

thanks again
xxxx :mrgreen:

 

[Penners]

A man from Texturecare is coming tomorrow to give us a quote on removing screed and making good the pamments. Has anyone heard of this company or used them?

Hmmmm......

We will advise on the best finishes and seals for your needs and show you how to maintain the floor once restored.

Texturcare have the knowledge and the expertise to renovate and enhance the floor you have uncovered or to finish new floors laid by your builder or floor tile contractor.
We can offer you experienced technicians who understand how to get the best from your floor. We use diamond grinding/ polishing techniques, to remove rough- worn surfaces including stair treads and edges. Colour matched repairs to blend in Holes, Cracks & Chips. We also repair; sand and seal floor boards, wood block, & parquet floors.

I should be very careful. I know nothing about the company - they may make very suitable recommendations. But if they're talking about grinding off the top of your pamments and then sealing over the top of them....

May I suggest that post their recommendations here before you agree to anything? I'm sure you'll get some useful contributions to your decision.

 

[Penners]

what kind of tool do you slide underneath? I didn't quite get that bit. wouldn't a crow bar damage the underlying pamments?

That's difficult to answer without experiencing how solid the concrete is and how much space there is to slide a tool underneath. If you can get a bolster underneath then lever carefully upwards, that might work.

But if there isn't enough room for the bolster, perhaps a slate ripper would work. Slide it under then crank the handle from side to side to rotate the blade. That might give enough leverage to crack the concrete.