Electric fences, big dogs, guns

[JoceAndChris]

I caught kids with the wheelbarrow again yesterday, their excuse was "we wanted to sledge wiv it". Understandable, but these may or may not be the same kids who wrote my car off as it was parked outside the cottage and who turned on the garden taps in the summer.(and we don't have mains). The place is very isolated with no near neighbours; and we have around 1.5 acres most of which is a wilderness that you could break into.

The previous owner's solution was to shoot at them. He went to court for it and was given a suspended sentence, but earned himself a fearsome reputation and I think was less troubled subsequently than we are. Can I keep a gun for self-defence?

I would really like to improve security here. The paths around the property are all public footpaths and since moving here I discover they are not just for dog walking but also where nefarious deeds take place. I am alone here most of the time and feel incredibly vulnerable.

Can I put electric fences all round? And what about the visiting dogs/rabbits/ pheasants that come in the garden, and my own beloved cat? How painful are these contraptions to animals? Everyone has told me that I should get guard dogs but Chris can't stand dogs and I haven't won this battle yet.

How about CCTV and signs reading "You are being watched" Not very Period Property. Are there psychological barriers that work?

I am less worried about house break-in as there are great iron bars everywhere. Any tips for keeping these troublemakers out of the garden would be greatly appreciated. Or any suggestions as to how to make my husband like dogs!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

The best deterrent to start with is to make the property look lived in, used and cared for. So out with the hedge trimmer and the lawn mower.
See what effect that has before going to more extreme measures.

 

[Pford75]

Can I keep a gun for self-defence?

You can own an air rifle or air-pistol without the need for a licence, but I can't emphasise enough what a bad idea it is to consider using this in 'self-defence'. Even an air gun is perfectly capable of blinding or at an extreme, killing someone. Especially a child. I sympathise with your situation, but I would gently suggest that there are many other avenues to be explored before you start arming yourself.

Can I put electric fences all round?

As Gareth Hughes highlighted to me in a recent thread, the recent changes to permitted development now mean that you cannot erect new fencing without LBC. Besides, most electric fencing is targeted at livestock and is easily scaled by a determined intruder.

My suggestion would be to identify where the children come from and then make a polite, but firm, point to their parents. Repairing any existing boundaries, considering security lighting, spiky bushes and gravel paths are all worth exploring before the other measures.

I would hope though, that once the little darlings parents understand how you feel, their incursions will cease

 

[MdB]

It is probably worth contacting your local bobby / community liaison officer / what ever they are called now, to ask for their advise (don't mention the gun...) They should have a good idea as to what works and what doesn't in the local area.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for a lot of typically kind and knowledgable advice. I shan't shoot them...yet.

Very interesting and rather a relief that there is no point installing an electric fence.

Little darlings? Pah! They're about a foot taller and lots heavier than me. Don't know how I could identify their parents as they walk up from the town; unless I were brave enough to lie in wait and follow them home through the nettles and dark hedgerows.

The community liaison officer is lovely and often drives up to see me. His main advice is that I should get 2 big fierce dogs as quickly as possible.

So, a day in the snow with the hedgetrimmers for me.

 

[Lime]

I caught kids with the wheelbarrow again yesterday,..................
The previous owner's solution was to shoot at them. He went to court for it and was given a suspended sentence, but earned himself a fearsome reputation and I think was less troubled subsequently than we are. Can I keep a gun for self-defence?

Absolutely not.
Even walking out with one when not on a shoot could easily lead you to a lot of trouble, including return of young person armed as well.

I would really like to improve security here. The paths around the property are all public footpaths and since moving here I discover they are not just for dog walking but also where nefarious deeds take place. I am alone here most of the time and feel incredibly vulnerable.

Can I put electric fences all round? And what about the visiting dogs/rabbits/ pheasants that come in the garden, and my own beloved cat? How painful are these contraptions to animals? Everyone has told me that I should get guard dogs but Chris can't stand dogs and I haven't won this battle yet.

How about CCTV and signs reading "You are being watched" Not very Period Property. Are there psychological barriers that work?

I am less worried about house break-in as there are great iron bars everywhere. Any tips for keeping these troublemakers out of the garden would be greatly appreciated. Or any suggestions as to how to make my husband like dogs!

Public footpaths running through a property means you are exposed to whoever wishes to venture down them.
The iron bars and the fact the previous owner resorted to using a gun suggests problems are nothing new.
Electric fencing cannot legally be used to keep people out and not used next to a public footpath.
(In a rural community used to electric fences you are more likely to have it pinched.)
2 big fierce dogs will need to be under control so that they cannot worry people on the public footpath no matter who they are.
IME CCTV can result in the camera being a target or being used to threaten you.
Your best bet is to make the property look that it is in use and try to use fencing and hedging to keep strangers out.
A combination of wire mesh fencing, pyrocanthus and bramble will stop most people after a few years.

 

[Pford75]

Although it is worth noting that strictly.....planting a new hedge or erecting a new fence is no longer covered by permitted development and could therefore require LBC.

BTW - It is perfectly legal to be on your own land with an air rifle for purposes of pest control or even target shooting.

Agree with your comments on CCTV becoming a target.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Although it is worth noting that strictly.....planting a new hedge or erecting a new fence is no longer covered by permitted development and could therefore require LBC..

No - could require Planning Permission, not LBC, (though this would be if it was a Listed Building and I think we've established that the property currently under advisement is not listed.) But some fences will require planning permission anyway - anything over 2 metres high, and anything over 1m where it abuts a highway.

 

[Feltwell]

Guns, of any description - a very, very large No, unless you want armed response units round your house.

If the polite approach really doesn't work, there was a gadget on the news a while ago that emitted a very high frequency sound, undetectable to adults but pretty much unbearable to the "yoof". It was being used outside shops where kids used to gather and cause trouble. To rig one up to a PIR detector so that it went off if movement happened in your garden would be easy enough.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7240180.stm

However - what effect it has on animals I wouldn't like to say - I'm sure you could find the manufacturers website, but I would guess that a cat wouldn't appreciate it! You can get "pet proof" PIR sensors that only trigger above a certain body mass, I have them in my house on the alarm system.

But - as outlined above, making property look lived in, prickly hedges, keeping everything locked (esp. outbuildings), speaking to local community support officer / crime prevention officer has to be the best way to go. If you want security lighting, don't bother with 500watt floodlights, far too intrusive. A 150 watt flood positioned up high or even better twin 75 watt spotlight up high are much much better, with a seperate PIR detector low down. Screwfix do a good range.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for the very helpful ideas there.

Save money by not having to instal CCTV

Spend days making prickly hedges (but necessary)

As hedges start off little surely no need to tell Council?

Are there any ladies on the forum who have done self-defence classes? And if so, did they become fearless Charlie's Angels style fighters? I'd be interested to know if anyone could honestly recommend this; darling husband wants me to. Can you believe I was advised not to walk into town after dusk? It's very limiting. (I don't drive yet)

Sorry it's not really a "Period Property" question.

 

[CHRIS]

Are there any ladies on the forum who have done self-defence classes? And if so, did they become fearless Charlie's Angels style fighters? I'd be interested to know if anyone could honestly recommend this; darling husband wants me to. Can you believe I was advised not to walk into town after dusk? It's very limiting. (I don't drive yet)

I would forget this right now, unless you spend many hours a week training for many years it will not be of much use to you. Like you say the nice locals are bigger than you and are proberly used to a bit of physical excercise dont tempt fate and stay away. I spent plenty of time doing unarmed combat and Aikido etc whilst in the Army but it could back fire on you - please dont fall for some local night classes for ladies thing as the best thing you can learn to do is run like Usain Bolt!!!

I had an incident last year that involved me chasing a few local fat kids and threatened them with violence (I was proud that at 38 I could still catch some 12 year olds who had a 50m head start) - This is ok for someone like me as an ex Squaddie who spent plenty of time involved in that sort of thing but my local PSCO told me to be very careful as it can land you in serious hot water, this is even if they have damaged some of your property. I would go the spicky hedge or large dogs way - its a known fact that houses that have a dog barking in are much less likely to get burgled.

I would try and avoid any sort of contact with them but if you have a big brother from another area of the country get him and a few friends over - sort them out away from your property and send brother away for a few weeks! I got my wife some bear spray last time I was in the USA but that is a bit naughty in this country (You could carry Aerosol Oven cleaner but dont say I told you as it can blind people) - but if you feel very threatened please contact your local PSCO as they have to follow up.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I had an incident last year that involved me chasing a few local fat kids and threatened them with violence (I was proud that at 38 I could still catch some 12 year olds who had a 50m head start) - This is ok for someone like me as an ex Squaddie who spent plenty of time involved in that sort of thing.

I hate to sound as if I'm taking the side of the little b******s, but it is most emphatically not OK for you to threaten "a few local fat kids" with violence because you're an ex-squaddie.

 

[CHRIS]

I would have done it if was not an ex squaddie!!!! They have not come back since and our nice windmill has been vandal free ever since.

If I had left it they would be up there every weekend drinking Stella (caught them more than once) and trying to burn it down. Nip it in the bud that's what I say!!!!!

 

[michael]

Could you perhaps encourage swaths of stinging nettles to grow around the perimeter of your land? I seem to remember that these made an area ‘no-go’ when I was a kid but then again we used to where short trousers in those days.

You could also try dressing up as the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and act menacingly towards them.That character seems to send a shiver through most people, even adults

 

[CHRIS]

You could also try dressing up as the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and act menacingly towards them.That character seems to send a shiver through most people, even adults

Or these flying Monkeys in the Wizard of Oz

 

[michael]

Just another thought

Get a recording of a large dog barking and get your electrician to rig it up so that it plays through a speaker indoors when someone gets close to the house. Perhaps it could work with PIR sensors

 

[Moo]

Just a thought -


Even the most fearsome dog is, early in life, an absolutely irresistible puppy. So I suggest you give a 'temporary' home to a couple of house-trained puppies and then watch benignly as your dog-hating husband proceeds to fall madly in love with them. I'm sure your local dog sanctuary will oblige, especially if you explain your current situation)


(I say 'a couple' because two dogs will be much happier than an only one, and you'll have double the protection that way)

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well I had thought everyone was p****d until you came along with that sensible suggestion Moo, what with planned ambush, assuming costume, flying monkeys and fake electronic dogs.

I think that is a splendid idea Moo. Now what kind of dog would you recommend?

 

[MdB]

I agree with the couple but skip over the puppies (far too much work) and get a couple of rescue dogs. There are a couple at my feet you could have (but don't tell the wife). Useless as guard dogs but they do bark a lot.

 

[Aidan]

Can I keep a gun for self-defence?

According to the law, absolutely not. The quote below is taken from copied from another forum and the two quotees have some expertise in these matters.


"..........self defence as a need for a firearm was denied the voters in about 1965 although there isnt a political scumbag in elected office without some sort of armed personal detective. Thats the problem with elected democracies, they tend to ignore the electorate and then the new lot wont change the old lots rules!

Some police officers however take a slightly more broadmined appproach. The firearms officer who inspected my cabinet after my FAC ws issued was one such. His parting comment being: 'now if you do shoot a burglar don't forget to put one in the floor afterwards - it'll look like you warned him first.'"

I hate to sound as if I'm taking the side of the little b******s, but it is most emphatically not OK for you to threaten "a few local fat kids" with violence because you're an ex-squaddie.

The horrible reality is that the fat kids have no authority imposed on them and grow up to become local youths who respect and understand nothing but violence.

The deterrents available to the police are ineffective. The man hours required to prosecute are so great and the resources available so small, that the police now often follow a covert policy of avoiding arresting offenders. Whilst "taking the law into your own hands" is not to be encouraged, the underlying assumption, that the law will take the law into their hands, is no longer true.

A dog sounds like a necessity. An insulated heated kennel would keep the beast outdoors where it belongs.