Damp, insulation, and a 1600 Farmhouse

[Gervase]

Don't be downhearted (and don't be tempted to follow the National Trust's example - they have a lousy record when it comes to the sensitive treatment of period buildings).
Knowing where to draw the line is perhaps the most difficult part of owning an old house.
Perhaps the only thought to bear in mind is the old conservation maxim - don't do anything that can't be undone at a future date.
Thus, if time, an impatient spouse and children with consumption compel you to take a fast-track approach to the house, make sure it's a track that someone - maybe you - can reverse back down in the future.
It's been standing for 200 years; you'd have to do something pretty drastic to b*gger the place completely, and you clearly want to do a "proper job". Reality says the eventual approach will lie somewhere in between, but leaning much more towards the latter than the former.
At least your house is owned by someone who is asking the pertinent questions and trying to find out what to do for the best - which is a better position than countless thousands of others.

 

[Nemesis]

It's not the UK Nat Trust either...

http://www.nationaltrust-gsy.org.gg/


We have a couple of 'persicope' type vents which work OK.

 

[worms]

Just to be pedantic, there is no UK National Trust.

There is "The National Trust" covering England, Wales and Northern Ireland and "The National Trust for Scotland". Separate entities set up by different Acts of Parliament.

 

[Nemesis]

I know. Apologies! I should have said trusts.

 

[mills]

Alex F, I have just put up a posting for practically the same house in Jersey. I'm interested in the conclusions you draw from all the advice and when you plan to start. I have just raked out hard cement pointing this week ready to be lime pointed, this action seems to be generally accepted as the best way forward.
However, I have doubts about the best interior solutions. Lime render, dry-lined, dpc/tanked/cement? I had kind of decided on dry-lining but I'm worried it's just 'covering up'. I'm worried if I lime render the damp won't be resisted and the cement option just doesn't seem right.

 

[NT]

Cement is a good choice if you want to damage the stone/brick when it eventually comes off, and want to prevent evaporation of any damp within the walls, which would normally dry them out.

NT

 

[Penners]

I'm worried if I lime render the damp won't be resisted

You're quite right, Mills, that lime render won't "resist" the damp. That's actually the benefit of it. It will simply "breathe out" the damp, so provided your building is reasonably well ventilated, it will just be carried away.

It will then rise into the atmosphere, condense, fall as rain, and start soaking into your walls again! :wink:

 

[mills]

Cheers Penners, what I mean is that i've never seen lime in action. I realise the mix is porous, but i'm concerned that in heavy rain periods the interior gets wet, before it evaporates out.
Suppose my walls are 2 ft thick, granite stone exterior, clay/stone/rubble construction, lime pointed exterior, lime rendered interior.
Assuming everything works as supposed to, does the water penetrate to the interior and then evaporate? Or will it evaporate out before the inside gets wet?
Thanks.

 

[Nemesis]

No - it isn't THAT porous!

 

[Alex F]

Hi Mills and for anyone else that's interested,

What I ended up doing was stripping the entire three rooms of all the existing dry lining and plaster and cement on the walls and ceiling. I excavated the floors, removed the wooden lintels which were rotten and unsalvagable (about half were not original).

FLOOR
After some research and debate I did not feel comfortable enough with replacing the floor with a suspended floor rather than concrete as I was concerned about not being able to supply adequate ventilation and possible stale air areas. Not being any kind of expert (with a lack of alternative building material contractors here), I found no other examples of a suspended floor for such a refurb. so I bottled out a bit and put a DPC and a 100 mm concrete slab. I considered lime crete but this only seems really appropriate if you are putting in a stone floor not timber floor.

INSULATION
I decided after reading a lot and with much help of this forum that insulation is unnecessary on these thick walls if I could use a heating system which was more constant rather than on and off mornings and evenings. underfloor heating is best to achieve this. I initially looked at electric and realised a wet system (currently powered by oil) would be much most efficient. There appears to be a no. of theories on how you put in a wet system of underfloor heating, depending on the floor finish, but in my mind I concluded the heating should be within a screen so you get the benefit of storing the heat. With the floor boards which I want to put back this means applying 50mm of insulation, heating pipes and then screeding in between the floor joists. I also looked at a Osma heating system but this is very expensive and does not recommend a screed where floor joists and floor boards are involved.

So the idea is the heating will be on consistently for say half the year at a low level. I am considering at a later date putting in a ground source heat pump to heat the floor - but this is another issue.

The only apparent down side is when there are dramatic changes in temperature outside one has limited control on the house temperature as the system is unresponsive.

TIMBER TREATMENT

I had all the timber treated by the damp and timber tratment company.

They also drill tested and determined that some structural timbers had had it. This included the base of an A-frame in the loft and that end of the large oak beam which had eaten way badly by deathwatch. I am putting a granite corbel in to deal with this.

Certainly learnt that you need to take their advice with a big pinch of salt.

WALLS

Regarding the walls, I am going for the lime plaster finish on the walls with one or two areas exposed granite re-pointed in lime. I have however used a Vandex tanking product on the external walls 3 foot high and the rear walls that appear more damp. This is my compromise solution. Probably not necesary but the concerned of resale should I want to and to avoid damp getting to woodwork such as skirtings I decided on this.

I don't necessary want the wavey cottage style plastering that Lime typically is done in as this part of the house is more victorian. I want some paneling and architraves so the plastering needs to be a straight wall finish. I have not yet started the plastering so I am a little apprehensive about this as obviously the walls are not entirely straight being granite (not well set stone).


Overall it has (so far) been a struggle to do the project in a way which is sypathetic to the building and the environment, because this is not always practical but more so because the professionals and builders around you are not always willing to look at the doing this in a way they not always done it and frankly lime plastering is still rather unconventional over here.

I have a questions for Lime plaster experts. In order to make life easier for appling wood fixings like skirtings does one normally place some sort of batten say 35mm deep onto the wall before plastering in order to provide a decent straight edge for plastering?

 

[Gervase]

I have a questions for Lime plaster experts. In order to make life easier for appling wood fixings like skirtings does one normally place some sort of batten say 35mm deep onto the wall before plastering in order to provide a decent straight edge for plastering?

To quote the late Alan Freeman, "Not 'arf". Such a batten is an ideal way to get your plastering plumb and level and to provide a fix for your skirting.

Traditional skirting was nailed to wooden plugs hammered between the masonry and cut off flush, but if I'm plastering a wall from the stone out, I tend to use a batten. You may have to pack it out in places and plane off a bit in others to achieve a true level if you want 'proper' plastering (and nowt wrong with that - I've come to the conclusion that an awful lot of what passes for 'rustic' lime plaster in period houses is hideously inauthentic and only done because whoever put it on couldn't or wouldn't plaster as it should be done! The original plasterers would be spinning in their graves if they could see it).

 

[worms]

The only apparent down side is when there are dramatic changes in temperature outside one has limited control on the house temperature as the system is unresponsive.

That's when a wood-burner comes in handy!

 

[Alex F]

That's when a wood-burner comes in handy!

Yes, I will have that.

Gervase, thanks for your advice. Very useful answer.

 

[NT]

If you'd asked advice here when faced with conflict you might have spent less money and caused yourself less future problems.


NT

 

[Alex F]

If you'd asked advice here when faced with conflict you might have spent less money and caused yourself less future problems.

mmm....... isn't that what I did. Ultimately a practical balance has to be found all circumstance taken in to account.

 

[SGray]

Interesting to know what choices you have made, Alex F. Thank you for letting us know. You seem to have made vey quick progress- I wish we could say the same. In the meantime our sitting room is still out of action (and looks set to stay that way over Christmas) while we slowly dig up our garden to make a soak away, re route drain pipes and lower ground levels. Hey ho.
And I'm not quite sure yet what we are going to do with the lorry load of gravel, bricks enough for a driveway or the huge pile of soil we seem to have created.

 

[Gervase]

Hmm - sounds familiar! I've just been prodded in the ribs and reminded: "You remember that lovely ceramic sink and drainer? Do you think we could possibly get the bloody thing out of the barn, installed and plumbed in?"

Honestly, partners :roll: - they don't seem to understand that manana is actually rather rude and abrupt when translated into English.

 

[Penners]

don't seem to understand that manana is actually rather rude and abrupt when translated into English.

Here in Suffolk, we don't seem to have any expression that conveys the same sense of urgency.

 

[Moo]

don't seem to understand that manana is actually rather rude and abrupt when translated into English.

Here in Suffolk, we don't seem to have any expression that conveys the same sense of urgency.

It's the same over the border. 'Wading through treacle' sums it up quite neatly.

 

[Penners]

Ah yes - the famous treacle mines of North Norfolk.