Condensation

[pattiw1950]

As for slates, still quesion where you shop for your groceries?

 

[Nemesis]

I would consider first why you have such dreadful condensation.

It's not normal, unless the place is hermetically sealed.

 

[Nemesis]

I grow much of my own, I shop as seasonally as possible locally. I avoid major supermarkets as far as I am able.

I would not dream of using Chinese slate.

Nor would I fit a system which sounds expensive when I can simply open a window, have a breathing building etc etc.. the usual period property stuff.

But that's your choice of course. I'm not sure many who post here will have much experience of the system.

 

[Lime]

I would consider first why you have such dreadful condensation.

It's not normal, unless the place is hermetically sealed.

I think you have a point.
Regular opening of rooms and windows to ventilate the house is all that should be neccessary.

 

[Pford75]

I can't comment on the ventilation unit as I'm no expert on these things, but this will only ever attempt to deal with the symptoms rather than trying to address the real cause of the condensation.

It is difficult to be certain without seeing the house / knowing more about it, but it does seem as though moisture is being trapped in the building and unable to escape. As you correctly pointed out, kitchens and bathrooms can be a source of moisture, as can humans breathing :wink:

If the building has double glazing units, especially without adequate trickle ventilation and the outer stone/brickwork has been covered in a non-permeable render, the moisture is trapped in your house and will then turn into condensation on cold surfaces.

Rather than spend money/energy on automated systems, I would first investigate the external render (is it cement based) and then check the windows for ventilation (all dble glazing shld have a small vent (usually in the frame above the window)[/u]

 

[Nemesis]

Additionally - a real fire needs a draught, and that includes a stove. It has to be pulled in from somewhere...

 

[Nemesis]

Damp...

http://www.spab.org.uk/html/spab-online-videos/

 

[Aidan]

Nor would I fit a system which sounds expensive when I can simply open a window, have a breathing building etc etc.. the usual period property stuff.

It should recover some of the heat from the extract air stream, about 50% usually. The down side is that you have to pay for the power running the electric fans. A normal extract fan can be a huge heat loss. You'd get slightly warmed outside air coming in, so it would be colder; unless, that is, there's a heater involved If it's an electric heater, the energy savings have gone out the window.

I think the Not Easy being Green one wasn't installed as recommended, but am not 100% sure. It seemed to be exchanging heat between two rooms.

It still sounds like you'd do best to investigate the source of the water/ condensation before spending lots to remove it. It sounds excessive.

 

[NT]

Maybe Patti should ask her/him-self why no-one here has used these systems, and look for a carefully considered answer to that question.

If you have a bad damp problem, the causes need to be sorted out. In the meantime a humidistatic dehumidifier can reduce the damage. And it doesnt chuck loads of heat out of the building.

NT

 

[Nemesis]

I would like to see where exactly FoE recommends this system...

http://www.foe.co.uk/living/poundsavers/home_rules.html

I'm also interested in claims that this unit uses a penny per day of electricity. I can't see how it can work on that basis.

I'd be very concerned however if my house was so running with damp that something like this was required... very, very worrying.

With regard to cookers - gas may give out some condensation, but it's the moisture from pans full of boiling water etc which give out the bulk of it.

As for 'filtered' air - seems a little pointless to me unless the occupants are hermetically sealed into the home all day and night... once a door or window is opened, then nasty outside air will enter, and going outside will mean breathing unfiltered air.

 

[Johneds]

The drimaster 2000 is a completely different unit to the one fitted by the TV luvvies. Theirs was a heat recovery unit with a heat exchanger. The 2000 unit is not strictly a recovery unit, it simply takes tempered air from the loft and directs it into the living space.

The problem is that the loft air is cold. And if you have good insulation and good loft ventilation it will be very cold. What you are doing is taking that cold air and blowing it into the living space. The result is cold air, cold rooms, cold drafts.

My advice would be to turn it off during the coldest periods.

 

[Nemesis]

Doesn't that rather negate any supposed benefits then?

It did seem odd to me - it pumps warm air when the weather is warm - and the loft is warm, and cold when it's cold. I can't really see much advantage other than it keeps air moving - which using a stove should do also. That needs to get a draught of air from somewhere too, and that needs to be considered.

Yes, the 'going green' one was something very different I think.

I caught a few glimpses of that again, and it irritated me as much as the first time round.

There seemed to be a view that all old houses were permanently dripping with damp and freezing cold.

That one may well have had saturated walls from years of roof leakages and neglect - once heating and sensible ventilation measures were in place it should have dried out and become a rather more comfortable place to live. However, as we are all aware, it takes a considerable time to dry out saturated walls - especially if damp is still trapped behind cement render, when it can only go one way - inwards.

The 'going green' lot I think I would have liked to have seen trying out GSHP technology - but it all seemed so much quick fix stuff, with Mr G Green charging around being 'dynamic' and Mrs being - well, wimpy and moany and toying with it all.

But - we all had a good whinge about how bad the series was first time round.

 

[pattiw1950]

Whoops sorry about that. A couple of glasses of wine and I got carried away. You are right FOE don't recommend. I don't know why I thought they did. I probably got a bit carried away living in the same village as the luvvies! Whoever said that their system is different is right too. Thanks for your advice and suggestions. Basically we wanted to deal with the problem fairly quickly because we didn't want to live with the mould and since we had moved in I had had problems with sinus, blocked ears, cough etc, which incidentally has gone since we had the unit fitted.

Of course we would much rather open windows and have natural heat etc etc but it didn't seem to be working. This seems to be a particularly damp village. Maybe underground springs???? Most of the cottages in the road that I live in have serious condensation on their windows in the mornings. Now, we don't. As for the draught. I suppose really it's just like having windows open which is what you were all recommending. However, as I said that didn't work for us. The cost of running the unit is minimal - about 1p a day and the air seems fresher. One thing that it has done is eliminate cooking smells which used to linger even when windows had been opened and when our chain-smoking friends come to dinner, there's no trace of them the next day!!

O yes and the outside is rendered and painted and I'm sure there is damp locked in. Maybe we will consider taking the render off some time. But that will have to wait for now.

 

[worms]

I'm not sure we should be too hasty in ruling out heat recovery/air circulation/dehumidifier technology for old houses (although I think taking the air from the loft rather than outside is a bit daft!).

If we introduce modern standards of heating and insulation into old houses we are almost certain to increase the humidity and run greater risks of having condensation forming on any remaining cold surfaces. Increasing the airflow (by opening windows) with no heat recovery is an expensive option in terms of heat loss.

I also reckon that an air circulation system could save me heating oil costs, since a large woodburner in the hall circulating warm (and dehumidifed) air round the house, could provide me with the background heat that is difficult to provide with any other system. (Yes, I could install a GSHP and underfloor heating but the cost and disruption would be much greater).

 

[Lime]

(although I think taking the air from the loft rather than outside is a bit daft!)

Agreed.
The loft is the dustiest place and exposed to any local chimney discharge.

 

[Nemesis]

I think a system circulating warm air is s different thing.

It would possibly require a fan and ducts. May be expenisve to run a fan. I don't care much for 'blown' heating personally, havng worked with it for years, and round the ducts tends to get very grimy.

 

[pattiw1950]

I'm not sure whether I'm still part of this discussion though I initiated it. However, a couple of bits of info:
a) The air is coming from outside as it's coming through the loft's natural ventilation and there's plenty of that in our loft!
b) Although the air in the loft is dusty, it passes through a filter before it reaches the rest of the house and definitely seems fresher. But then Cornish air is so clean compared with most other parts of the country.
c) If you look at the Nuaire Drimaster site, you will see that it cannot be fitted where there might be a chimney break. Before we had it fitted, we spent a lot of money making our chimney safe and free from any breaks.

 

[Penners]

So come on you guys where are your answers????

I (like may others, apparently) have no experience of the system you're talking about, so can't express any views on it.

However, let's not lose sight of the fact that anyone who does respond does so as a favour to you. So perhaps a slightly less abrasive approach would be appropriate, eh?

Just a thought.

 

[pattiw1950]

Sorry. Didn't mean to be abrasive. I'm not used to these discussion forums and certainly find the jargon/abbreviations a bit baffling. I just felt there was a lot of drawing in of breath and sucking of teeth and tut tut this is not good for a period property. I guess I didn't explain fully that we have already tried the obvious common sense remedies like opening windows etc. and would dearly love to have everything as it would have been but sometimes that is difficult and expensive when you are living on a budget. For instance, when we have the roof tiles replaced, we will use as many of the existing ones as we can but unfortunately will have to use Spanish (not Chinese!) tiles as we cannot afford Cornish/Welsh whatever. If I've upset anyone, please accept my apologies.

 

[Penners]

Patti - I don't think anyone has shown any signs of upset. I was just trying gently to remind you that responses to questions here are a matter of goodwill, not obligation.

No harm done, I'm sure.