Cold draughty roof

[JoceAndChris]

Well, I'm now the proud owner of 3 rolls of the recycled bottle woolly stuff. £3 a roll at B&Q. I drive past this store every day so it isn't a problem to pick it up bit by bit. I take the point about how the fumes might be dreadful if BC were to catch fire, but the loft is so highly flammable that this is the least of our concerns. I'd just be worried about the house burning down!

I think I will have a go at laying it myself as poor Chris has far too much to do as it is. As FF points out, these procrastinating devices are just ways of saying he doesn't really want to do it. I think he thinks the cottage is warm as he allows a bit of heating in the evenings in the winter, and makes fires, and he isn't moving about the whole property during the day like I am. And over the years I've just realised that if I really want something, I have to do it myself. :lol: Hopefully he'll be pleased if it really does reduce the 3k bill.

The tank insulation debate is interesting, I'd be glad if I didn't have to do it as there are three large tanks up there, a hot water tank, a cold rainwater tank and a cold well water tank. Last winter was so so bitter with thick ice and snow for weeks, apparently this winter will be the same so I think pipes and points which are vulnerable must be well insulated.

I also don't really see how I can get into that part of the loft, Chris just jumps up there as he's very athletic but I don't think I can.

Will post pics as no doubt you clever people will have some thoughts on that too.

 

[MatthewC]

Sheep's wool based - I can't for the life of me think of the brand name, someone on here will know it - very green, very nice stuff to use

It's called Thermafleece and comes in two versions, one is (from memory) 85% wool and the other is 60%. The rest is recycled plastic which gives it body. It's lovely to use, apart from the inevitable disturbance of the dust already in the loft. (TIP: if you need to cut it, do so while it is still compressed before unrolling it.)

Well, I'm now the proud owner of 3 rolls of the recycled bottle woolly stuff. £3 a roll at B&Q.

Too late !

 

[JoceAndChris]

The Thermafleece does indeed look lovely, very jealous of you Matthew for using that! But it's £80 for a roll and we need a lot of rolls - the roof here spreads over around 90 sq m. Just too prohibitively expensive - by rough calcualtions £480 as opposed to £54.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Any thoughts on the acccess? Do you think a wide plank placed where the broom handle is would provide a safe enough platform to crawl over?

I think the stairs are too narrow and treacherous for a ladder

The other side is much easier - you can see the tiny door in the middel of this picture. I'll have to open the rolls outside of the loft space as they won't fit through the little door. A large man would never fit through. I may have to drink a "Shrink Me" potion myself!

There is a cat route from the south side to the north side of the loft as I've seen him go in one door and come out the other. But I haven't seen a human do it - it would be walking into the "hat" of the house, the conical roof void:

I don't know if it's possible to go in it.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh dear, Chris is rejecting the stuff I've bought, as it says it's made from Recycled glass bottles, not recycled plastic. Back to the drawing board.

 

[Feltwell]

I was just going to say that looks like ordinary fibreglass insulation. Horrible stuff to handle, but cheap - if you're prepared to suit up to fit it and don't want to go back in the loft in a hurry then it will do the job and will be the cheapest option.

This is the plastic stuff:-

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...cificationsProductType=recycled_plastic_rolls

 

[88v8]

...there are three large tanks up there, a hot water tank, a cold rainwater tank and a cold well water tank.

I also don't really see how I can get into that part of the loft, Chris just jumps up there as he's very athletic but I don't think I can.

Are you saying your hot water tank is not insulated? :shock: You must have money to burn....
I just changed the hot water cylinder in our notnew house specifically to remove the old (1960s) tank with its loose covers and put in a pre-insulated tank. It's one of the few improvements that actually has a pay-back.

Yes, insulate all the tanks. The water in even one of them would be enough to ruin your house, and the worst of it is that they split as they thaw, then not only the water in the tank comes down but also the ball valve will open fully and add to the flood. Using 1" polystyrene for the cold tanks, it's not hard to do, tie the cut sheets together with string or as has been said use meat skewers. I would think you might also have some spare hatpins.

The stopcocks and short lengths of pipe all need lagging too, leave no gaps. For long runs, the preformed foam lagging is good, but for stopcocks etc a special pipe lagging felt is available, about 2" wide, this can be wrapped around to leave no gaps, no gaps at all, and tied off with string.

From your pic I'd put the ladder on the stairs so you climb it facing down the stairs. That should be perfectly safe. If you want belt and braces you could screw an eye into the riser where the ladder will stand and tie the foot of the ladder to it. Your attics look very Gatsby.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

Any thoughts on the acccess? Do you think a wide plank placed where the broom handle is would provide a safe enough platform to crawl over?

A suitable length of scaffold board, or similar, would be strong enough to crawl over, but I wouldn't like to rely on just one of them. Too narrow for my liking. Two or three would be good though, preferably held together with a couple of battens screwed to the underside of them.

A ladder should also be possible, though exiting that access hatch might then be a bit awkward.

 

[philpjuk100]

Any thoughts on the acccess? Do you think a wide plank placed where the broom handle is would provide a safe enough platform to crawl over?

Take care! it`s a fair drop,do not do this if you are "home alone"

 

[AMc]

Re: Access -
Put the board across and see what you think, 2 boards would be better than one - obviously.
Do what you need to feel safe and if you don't feel safe then don't take any risks. No one will die if you don't do insulate your loft.
Pay particular attention to how you EXIT that door before you decide to go in, I'm aware that I'm far less careful at the end of a job than at the beginning.
Backing out onto a board over a drop when you're tired, covered in filth and dust will not be as simple as climbing in.

B&Q will let you exchange or refund what you've bought against what you want if you have the receipt and haven't opened the package.
I can see why they advertise that product as recycled - technically it's true - but it will also be the horrible itchy stuff. It will be horrible to install and then it will be horrible every single time you have to go in the loft. I only used itchy insulation as I had a whole loft already and discovered a big stack of the stuff in its packaging in the hay loft of the coachhouse so it seemed stupid not to put it in the house roof.

You may also consider getting all your insulation delivered by a builders merchant or a specialist to get a better price - give them a call and ask what they stock and get prices inc. VAT and delivery (which should be free but check).
I used these people for a number of insulation products not sure if Norwich is too far but they have other branches.
http://www.sheffins.co.uk/show_prodlist.asp?CatID=35&SubCatID=67

 

[JoceAndChris]

Many thanks for all the advice - I've just called the people in AMc's link as nobody around here appears to stock anything made of plastic bottles. I think the Loughborough branch will be able to help; just waiting to hear back. I'm expecting "Green Loft" to work out vastly more expensive than £3 a roll but I really don't want floating fibres in the building as I have enough problems with asthma as it is. Chris has to go in the loft very regularly so I don't really want horrid particles stirred up every time.
Chris said this morning that it's no job for a girl as he wants to lift every wire to put on top of the insulation, and apparently there are dozens and dozens of wires and pipes, so I think he's going to do it with me passing him things.
Thanks so much for the advice on how I could access it though as you never know when I might have to go in there.

 

[Moo]

When my grandfather (aged 85+) wanted to insulate his loft my mother (aged 65+) insisted on doing it for him.
She arrived on the appointed day to find the loft hatch open and the ladder already in position. When she got to the top of the ladder, grandad handed her a lamp on the end of a very long flex.
He was concerned about her safety, scrambling about in a dark loft, so he'd gone up the day before and screwed cup-hooks to all the rafters so that she could hang the lamp over whichever bit she was working on.

 

[Penners]

Do you think a wide plank placed where the broom handle is would provide a safe enough platform to crawl over?

As FF says, I would opt for two scaffold boards side-by-side. This will give you the width and rigidity that you need. Don't rely on anything thinner.

As 88v8 says, you absolutely must insulate your hot water cylinder. The modest cost of an insulation jacket will be as nought compared with the money you'll lose from the uninsulated cylinder. And don't be parsimonious about the jacket you buy - the thicker the better.

I would use something considerably thicker than 1-inch polystyrene to insulate the cold water tanks. And the insulation needs to cover all four sides and the top (but not, as I said earlier, the bottom).

 

[JoceAndChris]

I'll read all this tank advice out to C if he's doing it now - thanks so much. But he says I'm muddled about the hot water tank, and the only one we have is this one in the airing cupboard (that we plan to have moved into the attic so that we can put a shower in the airing cupboard)

Does it look well insulated?

So sorry to ask so many inane questions, it's all very difficult.

 

[JoceAndChris]

When my grandfather (aged 85+) wanted to insulate his loft my mother (aged 65+) insisted on doing it for him.
She arrived on the appointed day to find the loft hatch open and the ladder already in position. When she got to the top of the ladder, grandad handed her a lamp on the end of a very long flex.
He was concerned about her safety, scrambling about in a dark loft, so he'd gone up the day before and screwed cup-hooks to all the rafters so that she could hang the lamp over whichever bit she was working on.

That's such a sweet story Moo! I can just picture it. My dad (75) offered to do the insulation for me, but he's just spent a week filling bowsers for me and towing them, and I just can't ask him to do this too. Your mother sounds very capable indeed.

 

[Feltwell]

Does it look well insulated?

Yes, that is a modern pre-insulated tank, it's just fine. You don't need to do anything to it. If you really wanted to the pipe coming out of the top wouldn't hurt for a bit more lagging, it would be a 10 second job but it won't make a huge amount of difference if you don't bother.

 

[Penners]

As Feltwell said, that's a factory-applied insulation on your tank. I agree with his thoughts about the pipe at the top, although if you use the cupboard as an airing cupboard, you may be prepared to allow a bit of heat loss in order to get your ironing dry!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thank you. No doubt you might think that in three years I should have figured out where and what the hot water tank is, but then being female I've been very busy thinking about Print Rooms, shell-work, and the poultry.

 

[Penners]

the poultry

Yum! I feel like chicken tonight.

 

[worms]

Hopefully he'll be pleased if it really does reduce the 3k bill...

My betting would be that you still spend the same on heating but have a much more comfortable house!