Back door lock

[paulb33]

Hi All,

Does any have recommendations on a back door rim (?) lock? We're having a door made up. It connects the Edwardian scullery to the back yard. The door is a simple design: 3 x 2 glazed top and tongue/groove bottom. The lock would be surface mounted and we require key access from outside. It would need to be lockable from inside to prevent a pane being broken and access gained. I was thinking of keeping it very simple, per arts & crafts, like this:

http://www.fromtheanvil.co.uk/rim-lock-cast-iron-cover-beeswax.html

What sort of knob or handle would be appropriate for an Edwardian back door? Of course, the exterior handle/knob would have to be weather resistant.

Regards,

Paul

 

[Owain]

That's only a 2-lever lock and is hopelessly inadequate for an external door for security purposes.

Screwfix have a selection of rather cheaper ones, but none of them have any security rating whatsoever
http://www.screwfix.com/c/ironmongery-security/rim-sash-locks/cat4730042

For security use a mortice sashlock to British Standard

 

[paulb33]

That's only a 2-lever lock and is hopelessly inadequate for an external door for security purposes.

Screwfix have a selection of rather cheaper ones, but none of them have any security rating whatsoever
http://www.screwfix.com/c/ironmongery-security/rim-sash-locks/cat4730042

For security use a mortice sashlock to British Standard

Thanks, Owain. Anyone know of any secure locks, which have the right look?

 

[Flyfisher]

Something like this perhaps?
http://www.lockmonster.co.uk/prod/rim-lock-conversion-box-for-chubb-deadlocks.html?gclid=CNPW2f_Fz74CFYoSwwodFmAASA

Seems a tad expensive for a what is essentially a steel box, but it would allow a good security lock to be fitted to the face of a door.

Lock security might not be too important if the door is not used for 'final entry' and can therefore be additionally securely bolted top and bottom, but if only secured by the lock then it's probably worth checking insurance details for any specific requirements.

 

[plasticpigeon]

http://www.theperiodironmonger.co.uk/oak-box-rim-lock-%26-knobs-with-5-lever-lock-pewter-patina~272

 

[paulb33]

http://www.theperiodironmonger.co.uk/oak-box-rim-lock-%26-knobs-with-5-lever-lock-pewter-patina~272

That's more than the door!

 

[88v8]

http://www.theperiodironmonger.co.uk/oak-box-rim-lock-%26-knobs-with-5-lever-lock-pewter-patina~272

Glorious
Bringacastle

Ivor

 

[a twig]

I just got a fairly cheapo job from Wickes for mine in a similar situation, as there is very little point in having a whizzy lock unless you have a super security door. Until you start putting in deadbolts on both sides of the door, metal plates around the lock reciever etc, you can 5 pin as much as you like and it won't really do a lot.

Otherwise a lock will only deter opportunists, if someone really wants to get into your house they they tend to go "through" things (windows & door hinges for example).

 

[Flyfisher]

I agree with all that, but beware of insurance company small print.

 

[Keithj]

As Ff said.

You don't buy a 5-lever lock to keep the burglars out. You buy it because the insurance company says you have to have one.

I had a debate with our former insurance co about this house. They wanted me to do all kinds of stuff. I pointed out that anyone with a small crowbar could get in via any number of places that can't be fitted with locks, but they made it plain that it was "do it our way or remain uninsured".

Our present insurer is much more pragmatic. We have locks on windows and doors that would tempt the opportunist, but it's not silly.

 

[Penners]

As Ff said.

You don't buy a 5-lever lock to keep the burglars out. You buy it because the insurance company says you have to have one.

I had a debate with our former insurance co about this house. They wanted me to do all kinds of stuff. I pointed out that anyone with a small crowbar could get in via any number of places that can't be fitted with locks, but they made it plain that it was "do it our way or remain uninsured".

Good advice from FF and Keith. It's essential always to read the small print of your insurance policy, which will almost certainly require things like British Standard 5-lever locks on main doors, secret deadbolts in French windows, window locks on all (or at least vulnerable) windows, etc.

There's one other thing worth mentioning. Some years ago we had a fairly large dog (smallish Labrador size) and a suitably-sized dog-flap set into the back door of the house. We asked our insurers whether this could jeopardise our cover, and they said we would not be covered if a malefactor got into the house via the dog-flap. We came to an agreement with them that, if we fitted a different design of flap that was lockable, our cover would not be at risk.

Dog owners take note!

 

[paulb33]

What would be a traditional approach to the outside of the door? Would it have a handle or knob? Perhaps neither?

 

[Penners]

On an Edwardian house I reckon either might have been used, although for this rustic style of door, I think I might go for something a bit Arts & Craftsy. How about this?

http://www.theperiodironmonger.co.uk/pewter-lever-lock~817

or this:

http://www.theperiodironmonger.co.uk/thumb-latch-right-handed-pewter-or-black~347

 

[paulb33]

Look nice, Penners. How would this work with a rim lock?

 

[88v8]

Did you really mean that the stile is 3"x2"? Is this your gunstock door?

If so, for security/going through the motions insurance purposes, I would fit a 5 lever narrow-stile mortice lock such as this
http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Wil-Lok-M8--Narrow-Style--5-Lever-Dead-Lock-.html
which is typically used on French doors (I suspect even narrower ones may be available, the search phrase is 'narrow stile') with key access inside and out, the outer escutcheon covered of course.

Or if you don't mind bending over to lock it, a standard 5-lever lower down the door where the stile is full-width.

Then one has a free hand to fit any ornamental olde rim lock without trying at the same time to make it lockable and hoho 'secure'.

Ivor

 

[paulb33]

Did you really mean that the stile is 3"x2"? Is this your gunstock door?

If so, for security/going through the motions insurance purposes, I would fit a 5 lever narrow-stile mortice lock such as this
http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Wil-Lok-M8--Narrow-Style--5-Lever-Dead-Lock-.html
which is typically used on French doors (I suspect even narrower ones may be available, the search phrase is 'narrow stile') with key access inside and out, the outer escutcheon covered of course.

Or if you don't mind bending over to lock it, a standard 5-lever lower down the door where the stile is full-width.

Then one has a free hand to fit any ornamental olde rim lock without trying at the same time to make it lockable and hoho 'secure'.

Ivor

Yes, Ivor. I had all 5 doors made in gunstock fashion. 3x2 glazing panes. I would attach a photo, but it tells me that "the board attachment quota has been reached"?? The joiners have been fretting about locks and security, saying that my insisting on gunstock prevents them fitting something appropriate. Not sure what they're worrying about - a surface mounted rim lock would solve that(?).

 

[plasticpigeon]

Paul, a really good source book is the Young and Marten catalogue from the late 19th century. It has been reprinted by the Victorian society recently. It gives a good idea of what was available around that time. It could be that your door furniture was bespoke, but it could still give some inspiration. I can scan in the relevant pages later if you like.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Victorian-House-Catalogue-Young-Marten/dp/0283060557

 

[paulb33]

Paul, a really good source book is the Young and Marten catalogue from the late 19th century. It has been reprinted by the Victorian society recently. It gives a good idea of what was available around that time. It could be that your door furniture was bespoke, but it could still give some inspiration. I can scan in the relevant pages later if you like.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Victorian-House-Catalogue-Young-Marten/dp/0283060557

Be great if you would scan the door furniture pages, PP.

 

[Feltwell]

Paul, a really good source book is the Young and Marten catalogue from the late 19th century. It has been reprinted by the Victorian society recently. It gives a good idea of what was available around that time. It could be that your door furniture was bespoke, but it could still give some inspiration. I can scan in the relevant pages later if you like.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Victorian-House-Catalogue-Young-Marten/dp/0283060557

That's an item for the birthday wish list if ever I saw one.....

 

[Penners]

Look nice, Penners. How would this work with a rim lock?

I had assumed that the rim lock would be a separate item.