Anyone know anything about gramophones?

[Flyfisher]

However, I've been using 128kbps, so I guess that's where my problem lies. I shall rethink this immediately.

Yes, that's rather low for good quality music. Probably OK for streaming "medium wave" quality over the web (or speech of course), but it won't compare with a half-decent hi-fi.

 

[Flyfisher]

a bass cut/treble boost

Is that the same thing as adding brightness?

Sort of, but the RIAA specifies a particular frequency response curve. It's nothing particularly special and is fairly arbitrary, I believe, but with the advantage of being very cheap to implement (as MdB explained). I forget the details (no doubt Google would reveal all) but the mechanics of cutting an analogue disc required some frequencies to be reduced in amplitude and others to be boosted. The exact amount of cut and boost wasn't precisely important but it was essential to accurately reverse the process during playback, to restore a (nominally) flat frequency response to the recording. Since there were relatively few recorders but millions of players, it made sense for any complexity to be confined to the recording process, allowing the players to reverse the process simply and cheaply. Hence MdBs 'two capacitors in the right place'.

 

[Flyfisher]

David Kings "Phogrofone" plays 78s with very low pressure steam,so low it is said to run on fog!

What a wonderful machine!

 

[Flyfisher]

Grrrrr! Inspired by this topic, I started transferring my cassette collection to MP3 yesterday, as it's an easier place to start than my vinyl. It works fine for a while, but then I get a sudden loud hissing that sometimes lasts a few seconds, or sometimes runs continuously. I started using Pinnacle Clean software (some years old and no longer available) with the USB pre amp that came with it, then tried the same pre amp with Audacity open source software with the same result. So far I haven't managed to trace the problem

.

Don't despair!
I've used 'Clean' with my vinyl (and other) recordings with no problems. I've also used Audacity quite a bit with no problems. I'd suggest this points to the USB pre-amp widget (which I've never used).

Cassettes shouldn't really be any harder to digitise than vinyl; the basic process is the same (unless you meant the physical handling differences?).

Assuming your PC has a soundcard, why not try recording directly into that from your cassette player/deck instead of using the USB pre-amp? Tape players have outputs that are (usually!) compatible with soundcard inputs, so all you should need is a suitable cable to connect the two. You could then use Audacity to record a wav file and also to chop the recording it into individual tracks. Load those tracks into Clean and apply whatever tweaks you want. You'll now have a nice set of uncompressed digitised recordings from your tapes. At this stage, you can burn a music CD from the wavs if you wish. I use Nero for this.

For vinyl, just do the same thing but connect your record deck via a hi-fi amp if possible. The record deck inputs on the amp will include all the necessary pre-amp gubbings (including the RIAA correction we've been discussing) and you simply connect the 'Tape Out' to your PC soundcard.

The above is exactly what I did to convert my old recordings. Once I have the wav files, I then convert them to MP3s using CD-Ex, an open-source CD and wav ripper that uses the LAME MP3 encoder. As previously discussed, I'd recommend using the 320kbps VBR settings.

Good luck!

 

[JohnB]

Don't despair!
I've used 'Clean' with my vinyl (and other) recordings with no problems. I've also used Audacity quite a bit with no problems. I'd suggest this points to the USB pre-amp widget (which I've never used).

Cassettes shouldn't really be any harder to digitise than vinyl; the basic process is the same (unless you meant the physical handling differences?).

Assuming your PC has a soundcard, why not try recording directly into that from your cassette player/deck instead of using the USB pre-amp? Tape players have outputs that are (usually!) compatible with soundcard inputs, so all you should need is a suitable cable to connect the two. You could then use Audacity to record a wav file and also to chop the recording it into individual tracks. Load those tracks into Clean and apply whatever tweaks you want. You'll now have a nice set of uncompressed digitised recordings from your tapes. At this stage, you can burn a music CD from the wavs if you wish. I use Nero for this.

For vinyl, just do the same thing but connect your record deck via a hi-fi amp if possible. The record deck inputs on the amp will include all the necessary pre-amp gubbings (including the RIAA correction we've been discussing) and you simply connect the 'Tape Out' to your PC soundcard.

The above is exactly what I did to convert my old recordings. Once I have the wav files, I then convert them to MP3s using CD-Ex, an open-source CD and wav ripper that uses the LAME MP3 encoder. As previously discussed, I'd recommend using the 320kbps VBR settings.

Good luck!

I'll work through all the different combinations, until I isolate the problem. It would just be nice if something went smoothly for once! The computer, pre amp and my hi-fi have been in store for 3 years while I was travelling, but worked fine before that! I'll try by-passing the pre amp next. I started with cassettes because you just shove them in and press a button. I need to get the turntable set up properly, so thought I'd leave that until I've got everything else working.

 

[Penners]

JohnB

This is probably a silly question, but it couldn't just be that your tape head needs cleaning, could it?

 

[JohnB]

JohnB

This is probably a silly question, but it couldn't just be that your tape head needs cleaning, could it?

No. I've been listening on headphones plugged into the tape deck and the pre amp, and it's fine. Whatever it is is after the headphone socket on the pre amp. I've tried wobbling plugs, disconnecting from the network/internet, and turning off the anti-virus without luck. Plugging the tape deck directly into the computer seems like the next thing to try. Then I suppose I'll have to open up the computer, and check for loose connections. Maybe there are some real bugs inside from it's time in store, and they don't share my taste for Jeff Beck and UFO!

 

[Flyfisher]

If the PC is quite old then I wonder if it can properly handle the USB widget. USB is certainly averagely fast enough to handle audio but the audio signal is a 'real-time' signal that must be continuously digitised to avoid any loss of data. A cheap USB widget might depend exclusively on the PC processor being able to keep up with the incoming data but the USB interface can be 'interrupted' by other things on the PC. For many applications (e.g. reading a memory stick) this is not a problem because the USB interface can be halted for a bit and then resumed later without loss of data, but when digitising analogue audio (or analogue video, another 'real-time' data source), halting the USB interface will result in lost data.

In contrast, a soundcard has local processing power that enables it to buffer (store) incoming data if the PC processor is momentarily interrupted, so data loss is avoided (or is far less likely anyway). You've already done some good things like disabling antivirus (which reduces the chance of the PC processor being interrupted while digitising the audio) but if these sorts of things don't solve the problem then I'd still bet on the USB widget as the suspect.

I reckon it'll all work when you connect directly to the PC soundcard (fingers crossed though!).

 

[chuckey]

As windows type PCs ALWAYS take the processor away to check the "network" they are not used for real time applications such as machine tools (or at least not without some on machine buffering). So the lack of a decent USB buffer and the reliance on the PC processor could lead to funny effects. As the amount of "free" PC RAM is indeterminate, the effect might not be reproducible exactly, i.e. later or earlier in the recording process. You could try loading some more applications in RAM (appears on task bar) and see if the effect occurs more often.
Frank

 

[JohnB]

All the equipment was bought at a similar time, so there shouldn't be a problem. A 2.8GHz Pentium 4 with 1Gb RAM running XP Pro was pretty state of the art at the time, and was built to handle video editing that is far more demanding. I transferred a good few hours before I went travelling, and all I've done recently is 3 years of software updates. I'll try the pre amp on my less powerful, but new last year, laptop too. I just didn't want all the hassle of trying out all the different combinations to find the fault, and am not in the mood today.

 

[Flyfisher]

A 2.8GHz Pentium 4 with 1Gb RAM running XP Pro was pretty state of the art at the time, and was built to handle video editing that is far more demanding.

The issue (assuming we're on the right track) is not so much the processing power per se but the way USB works; the peak speed is certainly fast enough for audio and video but the average throughput cannot really be guaranteed - which is a problem for any real-time input. USB wasn't used for tape-based digital camcorders, because it could not guarantee not to drop video frames when being downloaded to a PC from the real-time video-tape playback. These days, camcorders record to memory cards or hard discs and this completely eliminates the real-time nature of downloading video and the consequent risk of dropped frames. A modern camorder could download to a PC over a bit of wet string (poetic licence) and although it would take a long time there wouldn't be any data loss.

I use a more-or-less same spec PC (3GHz) for editing video with no problem but I transfer the real-time camcoder video into my PC via Firewire, which has a lower peak transfer rate than USB but is guaranteed to keep up with the 25Mbps DV mini format. That's why all tape-based miniDV camcorders were fitted with Firewire interfaces for downloading instead of USB.

Of course, the actual problem could be something completely different. :wink:

I transferred a good few hours before I went travelling, and all I've done recently is 3 years of software updates.

. . . which probably wont have done anything to improve your PC's performance.

 

[piper]

This thread is getting very heavily techie - all this equipment just to play music!

I've got a piano, a flute, several recorders and some Northumbrian bagpipes. :wink:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I agree piper. The cheek of some people taking a thread so far off-topic, so quickly! :wink:

Well, since SWMBO is actually away for the weekend, I have a little chance to play. I'll post some pics later, but have discovered that a gramphone is really very simple. The main problem I have is the turntable sticks, because the motor under the table has been installed off-level!

I'll fix that later today, clean and grease said motor and then see what kind of condition the soundbox is in. It seems to have a flexible "skirt" which has hardened somewhat, but the box of goodies has a couple of spares too.

All being well, I'll be relaxing to the sound of a nice Charleston by tea time.

 

[Flyfisher]

This thread is getting very heavily techie - all this equipment just to play music!
I've got a piano, a flute, several recorders and some Northumbrian bagpipes. :wink:

Fair point, although I do also play in two live bands so it's not all hi-tech, computerised gizmos at FF Towers.
Here's a little stage I knocked together for a recent get-together and barbeque.
We don't play much in the way of Charlestons though.

 

[Moo]

This thread is getting very heavily techie - all this equipment just to play music!
I've got a piano, a flute, several recorders and some Northumbrian bagpipes.

Ah! Someone who subscribes to my theory* : If you can't play it in a power-cut it isn't music.



*Actually, I'm stretching the theory a bit here. Its principal application is to 'music' that comes out of big black boxes.

 

[Flyfisher]

This thread is getting very heavily techie - all this equipment just to play music!
I've got a piano, a flute, several recorders and some Northumbrian bagpipes.

Ah! Someone who subscribes to my theory* : If you can't play it in a power-cut it isn't music.

We only use power for amplification though, not the actual music generation. No synths and suchlike.

 

[Penners]

We only use power for amplification though, not the actual music generation. No synths and suchlike.

I shall keep my eyes open for your album, "Flyfisher Unplugged To Convince Moo".

 

[AMc]

This thread is getting very heavily techie - all this equipment just to play music!

I've had real trouble trying to play my electric guitar while driving, you also get funny looks playing an acoustic guitar when going to pick up the paper, it's not dangerous the trouble is you can't play properly on the way back.
While I'm not too bad on the 6 string plank I have never really met the same level of proficiency as Jimi Hendrix so sometimes I prefer to listen to his original recordings than play them myself.

Once you have your got all your music (recorded by other people) in one place on a device the size of a fag packet it really is a revelation. Then being able to take the same music and play it anywhere (car, kitchen, shopping, school run) is bliss. Taking some care over the capture process is important as you're unlikely to go through this more than once given the time it takes.

I also still buy CDs and rip to MP3 to avoid digital copy protection & have a physical copy and better quality than a downloaded file. I can't remember the last time I actually played a CD in a hifi though

 

[Flyfisher]

I also still buy CDs and rip to MP3 to avoid digital copy protection & have a physical copy and better quality than a downloaded file. I can't remember the last time I actually played a CD in a hifi though

Ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto and ditto.

I knew I couldn't be the only one out there.

 

[Moo]

We only use power for amplification though, not the actual music generation. No synths and suchlike.

Black boxes = amplification = noise.