Anyone know anything about gramophones?

[JohnB]

Funnily enough, I have recently dug out my old NAD turntable (rather fine in its day) and rigged it up through a pre-amplifier into my computer. I'm in the process of copying my old LPs, and converting them for my mp3 player. Talk about a trip down memory lane!

Funnily enough, I've just dug out my Acoustic Research Universal turntable, bought when I was 16, to do the same thing.

it's important to use an pre-amp with "RIAA correction" in order to get the best results.

I've got a USB one of them.

I think I'll wander off to my office and do one now!

 

[Penners]

it's important to use an pre-amp with "RIAA correction" in order to get the best results. This is because the frequency response of a vinyl recording is not flat (a consequence of the mechanics of tracking the record grooves). Any hi-fi amplifier with a "phono" input (not to be confused with 'phono' plugs and sockets) should include the appropriate correction and the "tape out" signal of such an amplifier should be compatible with PC soundcards.

That's valuable information, thanks FF. I suspect that my little £20 pre-amp from Maplin may not have that spec, and I confess that I have been a bit disappointed with the quality of my digitised recordings. The software that I'm using (Magix Audio Cleaning Lab) offers a range of "clean up" functions, that will reduce hiss and clicks, add back some brightness, and so on, but I am subjectively sure that the quality is still not up to that which my turntable, amplifier and speakers used to produce.

I must dig out my old Technics amp and see what input/output connections it has.

But of course there are other limiting factors, too. MP3 compression and the tiny in-ear phones that I wear when walking the dog, for example.

Pink Floyd - of course.
Genesis - ditto.
Hawkwind - other than Silver Machine, no.
Yes - well, possibly.
Focus - never heard of them.
King Crimson - [unenthusiastic grimace]
Van Der Graff Generator - er, no.

In my list above I forgot Lynyrd Skynyrd, Creedance Clearwater Revival and The Blessing - probably lots more, too.

 

[wobs]

I also have some mp3's dated 1933. I suspect that was the date it was recorded, not when it was turned to mp3

Anyway, they're mostly by Leslie Sarony, boasting such classics as "Wheezy Anna", "What Can You Give A Nudist On Her Birthday", and "Ain't It Grand To Be Jolly Well Dead".

Classics every one of them, and I'd be intrgued how someone digitised them, as I'd assume they were 78s. To have them on 78 though would be fantastic, as I went to a primary school in the 70s where a teacher would play us all these classics, and they invoke some great memories.

 

[Feltwell]

I bet you would remember a Focus track Penners, if you heard it playing - "Hocus Pocus", which if I remember rightly as well as featuring lots of guitar (very air guitar friendly !) also features yodelling. A bloke called something like Jan Akkerman from memory, rather a good guitar player. I've heard of them, and I wasn't born until the '70's, so you've got no excuse!

ITunes is remarkably useful for playing 30 second clips of songs to see if you know them. Sad person that I am, I can happily spend hours on ITunes going through the links between bands, reading biographies , listening to clips and occasionally buying a forgotten favourite.

I've just finished uploading all our CD's onto the computer, as a consequence of finally giving in and buying an IPod (I bought a new car and it talks to the Ipod - so much better than a CD multichanger). It's taken me about 3 months (off and on). I don't think I've got that many CD's, it just takes a good hour or so to upload some of them through ITunes.

Cue someone coming on here and telling me that you can upload one in 30 seconds using some cheap gadget or free software!

 

[Penners]

I bet you would remember a Focus track Penners, if you heard it playing - "Hocus Pocus"...

...telling me that you can upload one in 30 seconds using some cheap gadget or free software!

Thanks Feltwell. I played Hocus Pocus on Youtube, and you're right - of course I remember it.

An hour to rip a CD??!! Using Windows Media Player I reckon it takes about 7 or 8 minutes to rip (maybe a little more), and considerably less to sync.

 

[Moo]

I swear eternal brotherhood to anyone with all of those in their collection.

Oh dear. Where does that put me in the pecking order?
I've never owned any of them. In fact, of the few I recognise, there are some that I would take active steps to avoid listening to.

 

[worms]

Penners, by strange coincidence I bought John Stewart's Phoenix Concerts last week, hadn't heard it for about 25 years! This was after downloading Harry Chapin's Greatest Stories Live the week before (which really ought to be on your list). Somehow it seemed time to revisit the late 70's!

 

[worms]

I swear eternal brotherhood to anyone with all of those in their collection.

Oh dear. Where does that put me in the pecking order?
I've never owned any of them. In fact, of the few I recognise, there are some that I would take active steps to avoid listening to.

Don't worry, its a boy's list! (And very probably a mid-life crisis thing).

 

[Flyfisher]

I suspect that my little £20 pre-amp from Maplin may not have that spec, and I confess that I have been a bit disappointed with the quality of my digitised recordings.

If it is intended for record decks then I'd be very surprised if it doesn't include RIAA correction (I've forgotten the details but I recall it's a very easy thing to do and therefore inexpensive). If it is a more general purpose pre-amp, e.g. for microphones or guitars, then it almost certainly won't do any RIAA correction.

I must dig out my old Technics amp and see what input/output connections it has.

I'd guess that will have a 'phono' input for your record deck and it should certainly have built-in RIAA correction. Use the 'tape out' connectors to connect to your soundcard and see if there is an audible difference.

But of course there are other limiting factors, too. MP3 compression and the tiny in-ear phones that I wear when walking the dog, for example.

You could try recording as a wav file (uncompressed, as per CDs) and playing back on your PC. That would eliminate the MP3 and earphone factors. The level of MP3 compression needs some care, but unless you're short of disk space or are really trying to cram your iPod full of stuff then I would recommend using at least 256kbps. I used to use 192kbps but occasionally noticed some distortion. Nowadays I use 320kbps.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks Feltwell. I played Hocus Pocus on Youtube, and you're right - of course I remember it.

You'd probably also remember 'Sylvia' and 'House Of The King'.

 

[Flyfisher]

I bet you would remember a Focus track Penners, . . . . . I've heard of them, and I wasn't born until the '70's, so you've got no excuse!

I'm glad to hear they're picking up a younger audience, I thought 70s 'prog-rock' was consigned to history by anyone who didn't live through it.
They still tour the UK and usually play small venues. I went to see them just before Christmas and they were excellent, even without Jan Akkerman. I saw them in St Albans Arena, a typical 'provincial theatre', probably less than 1000 seats, making for a very cosy concert. None of this £150-per-ticket-in-a-huge-stadium-where-you-need-binoculars-and-can't-park-outside nonsense.

 

[philpjuk100]

David Kings "Phogrofone" plays 78s with very low pressure steam,so low it is said to run on fog!

 

[wobs]

I went to see them just before Christmas and they were excellent, even without Jan Akkerman. I saw them in St Albans Arena,

"Are you knackered man?"
"No, I'm Jan Akkerman"

I'm here all week, try the fish.

 

[wobs]

[
Hawkwind - other than Silver Machine, no.

I saw Hawkwind for the first time last year.... In fact I saw them twice, once at Bearded Theory festival, and at Beautiful Days, where they did a spectacular set using giant puppet skelatons and all sorts of prog rock props. Made me feel quite young.

 

[MdB]

(I've forgotten the details but I recall it's a very easy thing to do and therefore inexpensive).

Two capacitors "in the right place" (TM), total cost £0.01 (max).

You could try recording as a wav file (uncompressed, as per CDs) and playing back on your PC.

You may also want to look into FLAC encoding. This is compressed but lossless and produces files approx 50% of the size of a WAV file.

 

[AMc]

If you've bought a large capacity iPod and have a reasonably small music collection then Apple lossless will (unsurprisingly) sound very good. We have a massive CD collection - iTunes shows 16471 songs, 93.36GB, 46.8 days, 495 Artists and 1513 albums :shock: - almost all from CDs. It doesn't fit on my 80GB classic but will on my partners 160GB classic.
I chose to compress to MP3 not Apple's AAC (so it plays on everything not just Apple devices) on variable bit rate so when the music is complex it can peak at 320kbps but saves space on silence etc. by compressing at 192kbps or so.

If you're looking to digitise you whole collection then I would recommend capturing something you know well and sounds good to .WAV then using the various compression options in iTunes (or LAME, or windows media player or whatever) to work out the best compromise between space and quality. I can just about tell the difference between 320kbps variable bit rate MP3 and a WAV/lossless but as I don't have the space to store the higher quality then it's academic.

If you're importing from CD then check error correction or you will end up with the odd recording with a stutter which is very irritating when you find it in amongst 100's of tunes.

Capture speed is mostly processor dependent - my creaky 3GHz P4 will compress a CD in 6-8 minutes, way lower than the 50x read speed of the DVD-R drive.
If you have more than once CD-ROM/DVD drive then iTunes will allow you to use them sequentially - load one CD while capturing the other or load two and leave the room - that makes the process a bit quicker.

Of course if you're capturing from LP/78/tape/wax cylinder then you're going to get a 1x capture speed and it'll take over an hour to capture an hour of recording (with setting up, turning the disc over, labelling the tracks).

I'd be surprised if analogue capture software didn't include a way to apply the RIAA filter on the recording on the PC as it's just a bass cut/treble boost isn't it?

 

[Penners]

If it is intended for record decks then I'd be very surprised if it doesn't include RIAA correction

I told the lad in Maplins that I wanted it for copying my LPs from my turntable into my computer, and it's what he recommended. So maybe it does have the jiggery-wossname that you mentioned.

You could try recording as a wav file (uncompressed, as per CDs) and playing back on your PC. That would eliminate the MP3 and earphone factors.

Actually, that's what I do. I record into the computer as a .wav file then convert to .mp3 for the player. However, I've been using 128kbps, so I guess that's where my problem lies. I shall rethink this immediately.

 

[Penners]

a bass cut/treble boost

Is that the same thing as adding brightness?

 

[JohnB]

Grrrrr! Inspired by this topic, I started transferring my cassette collection to MP3 yesterday, as it's an easier place to start than my vinyl. It works fine for a while, but then I get a sudden loud hissing that sometimes lasts a few seconds, or sometimes runs continuously. I started using Pinnacle Clean software (some years old and no longer available) with the USB pre amp that came with it, then tried the same pre amp with Audacity open source software with the same result. So far I haven't managed to trace the problem

.

 

[Flyfisher]

We have a massive CD collection - iTunes shows 16471 songs, 93.36GB, 46.8 days, 495 Artists and 1513 albums :shock: - almost all from CDs. It doesn't fit on my 80GB classic but will on my partners 160GB classic.

Wow - I though we were doing quite well with our paltry 70GB. :wink:

I agree about using 320kbps VBR for MP3s, it's what I use and seems to be fine. I also chose MP3s for their portability and absence of DRM restrictions on playback. Indeed, that's the reason I still buy CDs and refuse to buy compressed/restricted music via iTunes or other downloads. I still use iTunes as a library manager though.

I did give up chasing ever-larger iPods at 40GB though, just about when the first shuffles came out. I stream my iTunes library into my hi-fi (using these[/u]) for everyday listening and find that a 1GB shuffle sync'd to one of my playlists is fine for my purposes, as well as relieving me of having to choose from hours - nay, days - worth of music.

I'd be surprised if analogue capture software didn't include a way to apply the RIAA filter on the recording on the PC as it's just a bass cut/treble boost isn't it?

Good point. I've seen software that can do this, but only to 'post-process' the recorded wav file.