Advice pls on buying power tools

[Penners]

I must have been lucky with my two 14.4v drill/drivers (different brands) as they have physically identical batteries that fit either tool.

However, one is Nicad and one is NiMH so I have to be careful to ensure I use the correct charger for each

Yes, I think that's unusual. But your experience still highlights the fact that - unless you're sure what you're doing - the safe route is to use the tool/batteries/charger group that all came together as a kit.

 

[Penners]

a) What's an 'in-line' screwdriver (this is the description for a DeWalt DW920K shown in the Screwfix catalogue)?

b) Any thoughts on power screwdrivers in general? For example, features to look out for or avoid?

a) An in-line screwdriver is one that has straight body (rather like a fat manual screwdriver) instead of a pistol-grip type. The De Walt one that you've spotted will also hinge in the middle, to make a sort of pistol-grip.

My own view is that pistol-grip ones are much more comfortable to use, and you're able to apply much more body pressure to them, to avoid bit-slippage (sometimes called "cam-out") in the screwhead. They also tend to be available in more powerful specs, because there's more room for a bigger motor (and battery).

b) I would avoid economising on your battery screwdriver. If you're doing repairs/renovations to your house, it's going to do a lot of work, and a cheap one won't give you the service you need. You need a metal gearbox, and personally I wouldn't buy anything under an 18V spec. A hammer action is useful for light masonry work. Make sure it has two speeds - slower for driving and faster for drilling - and constantly variable speed when you squeeze the trigger. And, as I said above, get one with two batteries.

As a very rough guide, anything under £100 is unlikely to be very robust, but the more you spend the better you're likely to get.

Oh, and never use your screwdriver under the influence of port. Very dangerous. :wink:

 

[GK]

Elu (a defunct brand), De Walt (it's replacement) and Black and Decker (cheapo brand) all share the same battery fitting. I have a truly ancient Elu battery drill which has survived some really harsh treatment, in which I use De Walt and unbranded batteries. My two B&D drills died at 12 months and a day.

The De Walt screwdriver you linked to doesn't have a chuck, so it really is a one-purpose tool. You want a combi one, drill and screwdriver with reverse function, variable speed etc.

Personally I've managed perfectly well with 12v models, mine has enough torque to drive a decent size screw right through softwood, in hardwood the screw head will shear off before the drill stops turning.

SDS drills are the king of masonry drilling and chiseling, if you get a rotary stop model. But don't expect to use normal drills in it, even with a chuck. Very poor, and don't get a cheap one without a safety clutch or the first time the bit jams your shoulder will be dislocated.

 

[Penners]

Elu (a defunct brand)

Really? What a shame. I've still got quite a collection of Elu router cutters. Excellent quality.

 

[Flyfisher]

Amps per Hour (Ah) or sometimes milliAmps per hour (mAh).

No 'per', he quips, pedantically.

And it means nothing without knowing the voltage either. Multiply the Amp Hours by the voltage to give the capacity in Watt Hours. Compare that.

Quite right, but in my defence I did write 'generally . . . ' as I thought more detail might be more confusing, especially as I've never seen cordless tools specified in terms of watts but they always seem to have a battery capacity rating in Ah.

On the point about paying for quality, I tend to agree. But.

There is a vast price difference between, say, cordless drill/drivers - sometimes up to £200. Of course, I'm sure a £250 one will last much longer than a £50 one but the cost of replacing batteries is an important consideration.

When I needed new batteries for my drill/driver I found that the cost difference between two separate batteries or a boxed set of another complete drill/driver, two batteries and a charger was only £10. And that was for a drill/driver rated as "light trade" usage by Axminster.

If you buy 'the best' tool for top money, which lasts forever, you'll probably end up paying over the odds for the many individual spare batteries you'll need over the lifetime of the tool itself.

 

[Penners]

I'm afraid that principle holds true for spare parts everywhere. Once you've bought the device, the manufacturer has you in his grasp, and will charge you very high prices for any additional bits and pieces and/or consumables.

This is particularly true of computer printers (as I don't need to tell you). Very cheap machinery, eye-wateringly expensive consumables.

 

[Flyfisher]

Absolutely.
You may have noticed how the price of b&w laser printers have come down dramatically in recent years. However, not only are the replacement toner cartidges quite expensive (£90 for my Xerox printer) but some manufacturers have a nasty habit of selling new printers with a 'lite' cartridge containing barely any toner, forcing an almost immediate 'proper' cartridge purchase. :twisted:

Still, they are probably cheaper to run than inkjets, overall.
(so much for the 'paperless office' :roll: )

 

[Gervase]

Spares for Makita tools are actually quite reasonable - one reason why it's sometimes worth looking on eBay, as a new set of carbon brushes, for example, will only cost about £6.

 

[Penners]

Spares for Makita tools are actually quite reasonable

Provided you can afford the Makita in the first place! I wish...

 

[Flyfisher]

FWIW, I bought an Axminster AW144CD for £50 (incl 2 batteries and charger), rated for 'Light Trade' use and after some pretty extensive roof work it's still going strong.

But, even if it had only lasted for 3 months it would have been worth it for the amount of time saved on the one project. I spent far more on screws than on the power tools to drive them home!

I've seen ordinary mains-powered hammer drills for £9.99 and at those prices who needs spare parts? Not environmentally ideal, perhaps, but that's the economic reality.

 

[skier-hughes]

Absolutely.
You may have noticed how the price of b&w laser printers have come down dramatically in recent years. However, not only are the replacement toner cartidges quite expensive (£90 for my Xerox printer) but some manufacturers have a nasty habit of selling new printers with a 'lite' cartridge containing barely any toner, forcing an almost immediate 'proper' cartridge purchase. :twisted:

Still, they are probably cheaper to run than inkjets, overall.
(so much for the 'paperless office' :roll: )

I bought an epsoncolour laser and after a while they sent me an offer where I could have bought another one for less than the set of 4 toners!!!!!!!

 

[Penners]

I'm a big fan of Axminster, but I hardly dare open their catalogue. I know that, if I do, it'll cost me a pile of money!




Axminster? Pile? Oh, please yerselves.

 

[skier-hughes]

 

[Toby Newell]

Please don't tell my wife but I have over £26,000 worth of power tools and have spent many years and thousands of hours testing and researching them, sad, but true.

I'm not sure whether that qualifies me for anything, but I have found Japanese and German tools to be the best. I do not think it is coincidence that the same follows for buying motor vehicles, the Germans and Japanese just have the right mentality and engineering acumen to produce the most reliable and efficient machines. Most of my machines are German, Festo and Metabo especially. I also very highly rate Makita, the components (Japanese design and made) are assembled in the UK which means you will be supporting our own manufacturing industry and they are perhaps the best value.

1. In order of power to weight ratio and efficiency from worst to best, NiCd, NiMH, Li ion. It really is worth getting Li ion as they charge much quicker (better for environment), are lighter (better for environment) and are more effiecient with little memory effect (last longer, better for the env...)

2. Voltage in cordless tools is absolutely NO indication of thier power. Cheaper tools have to have higher power or voltage ratings to do the same job as better quality tools as thier cheaper motors, poor design and bearings make them less efficient at converting electricity "input power" into useful work or "output" power. Anyone who is an audiophile will know that a NAD, QUAD or Cambridge class A power amp of 20 watts rating will blow away a cheapo Chinese system rated at several hundred watts. Manufacturers play a numbers game and only list INPUT power, that is the power they consume, not OUTPUT power, the useful work they produce. Very misleading.

3. SDS developed by Bosch gmbh stands for "Slotted Drive System" and simply put is a way of attaching special bits with female grooves in them which slot into male receptors in the SDS chuck. So, quick change, no tightening and no slipping. It has nothing to do with power although sds drills are normally larger and more powerful, you only need one really if you are going to be drilling into concrete or other hard ceramic materials. Bosch blue professional range aren't as highly rated as some of the other manufacturers but Drills are the exception. Have a look at your plumber or electricians tool chest, virtually every one I have ever met has a large 24V Bosch SDS drill! Metabo also make fantastic drills, their corded drills are very good.

4. Jigsaw depth is max depth of vertical cut (should depend on saw blade length) drill capacity is for diameter of hole. Basically a cheapo drill is fine for drilling into wood, thin sheet metal, plastic, breeze block, light masonary and brick. For concrete or stone you will need a better quality, higher powered drill preferably SDS. I have a 3 kilo Bosch SDS with a 3 way chuck adaptor and it works fine. Some SDS drills have roto stop for chiselling but this is not what SDS means.

5. Impact drivers are very high torque (highly geared low speed, high moment of turning, like a tractor engine compared to a normal car) used for fixing plain bolts, nuts, coach bolts to very high torques (very tightly). They have a percusive "hammer" effect which helps to drive the fixings tight or loose. Impact wrench is the manual version although the terms are interchangable. (You actually strike the manual version with a hammer which forces the head round via a cam.

6. No load speed is the rotational spped of the tool under no load! i.e. the rpm spinning in the air, not doing any work. It is not a particularly useful comparitive term (see answer 2) as a cheap motor often has high speed (lots of wasted heat and noise) but very low torque so as soon as you start to use the tool in earnest the no load speed goes from very high to very low! Torque or output power is a much better indication of a tools ease and ability to do a particular job.

7. Drill/Driver = Drills and drives screws. Combi-drill = same plus hammer action for masonary drilling.

8. The only one I have no direct experience of, so I will defer to others. I would presume a good quality aligator saw (same as recip saw) could be used for sawing small logs but would also presume a band saw or a splitter would be more efficient for larger logs. Axminster indeed do a resonable and v good range esp of log splitters and band saws.

Finally. Dewalt. Yes we know handy Andy uses them... overated, overpriced and personally not v good value for money. I would choose cheaper Makita or Hitachi every time. If you have the money Metabo are hard to beat. I wouldn't bother with cheap tools it's actually disgusting how cheap and throw awayable they are. Buy a decent tool, don't be so bloody stingy and you can pass it onto your grandchildren! In the meantime you will save time and money and may actually enjoy the job you are doing. I still have many of my grandfathers old tools, the same quality can still be obtained but you just have to pay for it. Oh and old Elu power tools are magnificent!

Hope this helps. Oh and if anyone wants any specific advice on sanders I have around 20 of them, I loose count.

Toby Newell

 

[middi]

....." sanders, I have twenty of them"....



Why the hell, with all that research knowledge, did you get conned 20 times. Just buy a decent sander !! :wink:

 

[Toby Newell]

Yes Middi, well with ulna nerve damage to my left hand and constant tinitus and partial deafness in my right ear sometimes I wish I hadn't!

 

[Penners]

Voltage in cordless tools is absolutely NO indication of thier power.

I don't altogether agree, Toby. Obviously there are many variables in the power equation, some of which you have listed. But if all other variables are equal, then a higher voltage tool will be more powerful than a lower voltage one.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, that makes sense to me as well. Would it be better to say "Voltage in cordless tools is no absolute indication of their power"?

 

[Penners]

I'll subscribe to that.

 

[Lindyboo]

Thanks Toby Newell - very helpful. Interested to note your comments re DeWalt and your thoughts on German and Japanese tools - I'll give the latter a second look before I buy.

£26K worth of power tools - pretty impressive. I was thinking of spending about £800 max, but now I feel like such a cheapskate ...