Advice on gravel needed

[Tom]

Yes, a pick axe is no good. You need a sledge hammer. However, I'll bring my Kango, too

 

[Flyfisher]

A kango should certainly do the trick but even 5-inch thick concrete will break quite easily if it can be lifted clear of the ground. And a length of steel bar makes it quite easy to lift surprisingly large slabs (with a suitably placed fulcrum :wink: ).

This is the sort of thing - useful for all sorts of digging and breaking jobs: http://www.stantonhope.com/Tools_26_Equipment_020700_Crow_Bar_5_ft_Chisel_and_Point_.asp

 

[biffvernon]

Asda's the main employer in my town...

Ever heard of irony, Flyfisher? (But there is something about the cut of Levi 501s and the shape of my legs....)

Yes, Joce, I've no doubt Asda employs lots of people...but not as many people as would be employed in the shop-keeping industry if it did not exist. Supermarkets are able to sell cheap*, because they employ less labour than small independent stores while extracting wealth from your town and sending it to the shareholders of the parent company, Walmart, in the USA. Without the supermarkets the a greater proportion of your spending circulates within the local economy helping to preserve the rich diversity of a thriving high street. In my nearest town, Louth, we do not have an Asda or a Tesco, but we do have six butchers, a poulterer, three fishmongers, two greengrocers, three bakers, a cheese shop, two wholefood shops, two delicatessens, four off-licenses, heaven knows how many independent clothing shops and a street market on three days a week with farmers' market twice a month, in what is a much smaller town than Grantham.

*The perceived cheapness of supermarkets is highlighted by their loss leaders, a marketing strategy that removes margins from suppliers and producers. When a wide basket of purchases is compared the relative cheapness of supermarkets against the high street independents evaporates. Economy of scale savings are balanced by management and shareholder payments. And their global status allows the big supermarkets to avoid much of the tax liability that a domestic business incurs so we lose out as a nation.

 

[Tom]

I'm going to Joce's well armed; Makita breaker, large sledge hammer, large and small wrecking bar (for prising up), two lengths of rebar (to hold up and snap over) and two short pieces of scaffolding bar (to get a fulcrum with the wrecking bar or to break over). The concrete we broke before was around 5" thick and with the above, minus the breaker, it was a piece of p*ss :lol: :lol:

 

[Tom]

Biff, whilst I appreciate your views (everyone's entitled to their own), I really couldn't give a tinker's toss about 'green' issues and saving the planet. In fact, I don't even know anyone else who does! And the problem is for people who do care is that, by ramming it down peoples' throats at every opportunity, I become even more steadfast in my view. Why not just try being quiet about it and allow people to make their own choice instead of using bullying and shaming tactics? And don't tell me you're trying to 'educate' people because, believe it or not, the information is widely available to all....if they choose to look for it.

The key here is 'choice'. However, if you feel the need to be a hero on my behalf and waste your time trying to save the planet, feel free. But, be aware, for every bit of effort you put in I'm happily living my life as I choose, spending money as I like (at TESCO !!!!) and burning as many fossil fuels as I can without any effort at all. And so are the vast majority of people.

<plugs ears, so I don't have to listen to the nonsense that's bound to follow>

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh heavens Jaqy - I was about to curl my hair and light and fire! :lol: The china is all ready for the little cakes I've bought. I see I will have to jettison myself out of 1935 for your visit - but thank you. xxx

Just to Biff on the shopping - someday I must come to Louth for a giant shop, I'd love that. I believe your daughter has a delicatessen there too. Personally, I'd love to go back to the old-fashioned "basketing" of yesteryear, and eat delicious, fresh, seasonal produce, and ditch the Asda work jeans in favour of some home-spun frocks. I think I wouldn't miss the vast amount of the goods that are available in larger supermarkets - but there are some foreign goods that could not be dispensed with.

Grantham cannot support the loss of the small businesses you mention, and the town, which architecturally isn't bad and retains many of its old shop fronts, smacks of depression and impoverishment - pound land and charity shops throughout the High Street, and Asda and Downtown out of town. It's a terrible pity, but I just don't see what can be done.

 

[Flyfisher]

Oh heavens Jaqy - I was about to curl my hair and light and fire! :lol: The china is all ready for the little cakes I've bought. I see I will have to jettison myself out of 1935 for your visit - but thank you. xxx

If I were you Joce, I'd do your hair and light the fire. It sounds like Lara Croft will be arriving all tooled-up and will probably have dispensed with your concrete before she even rings the doorbell. Whadda gal. :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

Ever heard of irony, Flyfisher?

Of course, but it's sometimes difficult to detect in plain text.

In my nearest town, Louth, we do not have an Asda or a Tesco, but we do have six butchers, a poulterer, three fishmongers, two greengrocers, three bakers, a cheese shop, two wholefood shops, two delicatessens, four off-licenses, heaven knows how many independent clothing shops and a street market on three days a week with farmers' market twice a month, in what is a much smaller town than Grantham.

That's all well and good for people who have the time and inclination to spend lots of time shopping but, as pointed out earlier, it's not terribly convenient for people and families who work five days a week and don't want to spend their precious weekend leisure time walking from shop to shop and carting their purchases around in the process, probably in the cold and rain half the time. Against all that palarver, driving to a single store, parking right outside (for free) and being able to do the weekly shopping under a single roof in half and hour might seem quite attractive to some people. Or, even better, have the single shop deliver everything to their door.

Perhaps that's the sort of thing that makes supermarkets so popular? But it sounds like the good people of Louth don't have that choice do they?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Biff, whilst I appreciate your views (everyone's entitled to their own), I really couldn't give a tinker's toss about 'green' issues and saving the planet. In fact, I don't even know anyone else who does! And the problem is for people who do care is that, by ramming it down peoples' throats at every opportunity, I become even more steadfast in my view. Why not just try being quiet about it and allow people to make their own choice instead of using bullying and shaming tactics? And don't tell me you're trying to 'educate' people because, believe it or not, the information is widely available to all....if they choose to look for it.

The key here is 'choice'. However, if you feel the need to be a hero on my behalf and waste your time trying to save the planet, feel free. But, be aware, for every bit of effort you put in I'm happily living my life as I choose, spending money as I like (at TESCO !!!!) and burning as many fossil fuels as I can without any effort at all. And so are the vast majority of people.

<plugs ears, so I don't have to listen to the nonsense that's bound to follow>

Well, that's a pretty strong entry for most smug, sanctimonious and selfish post of the year. Outdoes Biff on every level.

 

[biffvernon]

Thanks Gareth, every forum has one

Yes Joce, Roxy's shop is called Royston's Deli. It's in the middle of the main shopping street. 80% of what they sell is food that they cook themselves, sourcing local and organic where possible, but they also sell foreign stuff. You won't find better truffle oil, olive oil, chocolate and coffee (single estate, organic, fairtrade, of course), balsamic vinegar (the genuine article), salami (Spanish is best) and anchovies. I like the anchovies; no, not the ones in tins of salt, but whole fish in olive oil.

The time thing is clearly a big driver behind supermarket shopping. It's like gypsum vs. lime plaster, UPVc vs. oak window frames, hewn oak vs. sawn whitewood for structural timbers, float glass vs. cylinder, period vs you-know-what.

If you shop at Royston's expect to have a chat, discuss the weather or your latest operation, have a cup of coffee, live life as if quality counts.

 

[LadyArowana]

In my nearest town, Louth, we do not have an Asda or a Tesco, but we do have six butchers, a poulterer, three fishmongers, two greengrocers, three bakers, a cheese shop, two wholefood shops, two delicatessens, four off-licenses, heaven knows how many independent clothing shops and a street market on three days a week with farmers' market twice a month, in what is a much smaller town than Grantham.

That's all well and good for people who have the time and inclination to spend lots of time shopping but, as pointed out earlier, it's not terribly convenient for people and families who work five days a week and don't want to spend their precious weekend leisure time walking from shop to shop and carting their purchases around in the process, probably in the cold and rain half the time. Against all that palarver, driving to a single store, parking right outside (for free) and being able to do the weekly shopping under a single roof in half and hour might seem quite attractive to some people. Or, even better, have the single shop deliver everything to their door.

Perhaps that's the sort of thing that makes supermarkets so popular? But it sounds like the good people of Louth don't have that choice do they?

I thought there was a Morrisons, I am sure Biff forgot, or maybe I am mistaken.

 

[Flyfisher]

Well, that's a pretty strong entry for most smug, sanctimonious and selfish post of the year. Outdoes Biff on every level.

Do I detect a trace of irony there? I know I'm not very good at it. :wink:

 

[LadyArowana]

Well, that's a pretty strong entry for most smug, sanctimonious and selfish post of the year. Outdoes Biff on every level.

Do I detect a trace of irony there? I know I'm not very good at it. :wink:

I had to do a big pile of irony on Monday, nothing better than a crisply folded shirt, I could give you some pointers if you are having problems.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm almost ashamed to admit that we're not big on ironing here. When I was working I sent all my shirts out to be ironed.

I thought there was a Morrisons, I am sure Biff forgot, or maybe I am mistaken.

According to Google, yes, as well as Somerfield, the Coop, Spar and a 'kwik-save' food store, whatever that is. It's good to hear that independent shops are apparently thriving amongst these other supermarket/convenience stores, so why the Tesco hostility? Can the folk of Louth not be trusted to make the "right" shopping choices?

 

[LadyArowana]

I'm almost ashamed to admit that we're not big on ironing here. When I was working I sent all my shirts out to be ironed.

That's what His Lordship does, sends them out............... to me.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I'm almost ashamed to admit that we're not big on ironing here. When I was working I sent all my shirts out to be ironed.

I thought there was a Morrisons, I am sure Biff forgot, or maybe I am mistaken.

According to Google, yes, as well as Somerfield, the Coop, Spar and a 'kwik-save' food store, whatever that is. It's good to hear that independent shops are apparently thriving amongst these other supermarket/convenience stores, so why the Tesco hostility? Can the folk of Louth not be trusted to make the "right" shopping choices?

Louth has a few small to medium sized "supermarkets", in town centre locations within easy walking distance of other shops and facilities. Not on an edge of town site, surrounded by car parking, only accessible by car and with no attempt at supporting an economic relationship with the rest of the town.

Not sure if it's the same in Louth, but the Co-Op in particular, and Somerfield and Morrisons to a lesser extent, do tend to provide (and celebrate) locally-produced foods.

Tesco may occasionally pay lip service to this, but their business model is based on total domination (no matter how much that may - currently - be held in check by government "red tape").

 

[biffvernon]

I thought there was a Morrisons, I am sure Biff forgot, or maybe I am mistaken.

Yes, there's a fairly small Morrisons. It used to be Summerfield and was taken over by the Co-op but they had to sell it as they already have a store in town. So Morrisons has not destroyed the character of the high street as has happened in Grantham.

Some people travel out of Louth to shop at Tesco in Cleethorpes. Others travel in the opposite direction. Some folk like UPVc windows. Funny old world.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Well, that's a pretty strong entry for most smug, sanctimonious and selfish post of the year. Outdoes Biff on every level.

Do I detect a trace of irony there? I know I'm not very good at it. :wink:

Not at all; Biff may occasionally be a bit of a scratched record, but he's sincere. And while he could be called sanctimonious at times, he's never been selfish, as DWB actually seems proud to be (but she's not listening anyway)

 

[biffvernon]

According to Google, yes, as well as Somerfield, the Coop, Spar and a 'kwik-save' food store, whatever that is. It's good to hear that independent shops are apparently thriving amongst these other supermarket/convenience stores, so why the Tesco hostility? Can the folk of Louth not be trusted to make the "right" shopping choices?

Bit out of date, that. There's a Spar in the towncentre but, as Gareth says, it's not in the same league as the big out of town stores. Kwik-save died a couple of years agp and Somerfield is now Morrisons.

Right or wrong shopping choices? The fact is that if large out of town stores exist, the traditional high street dies. There are just so many parallels with the conservation of period properties in such a debate. Can people of England be trusted to make the "right" choices about old buildings without the listed buildings legislation?

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, I agree it's a difficult debate. The oppression of the minority by the tyranny of the majority, and all that. Gareth is probably correct about Tesco's 'total domination' business model but I suspect that's more a consequence of their success than part of a grand plan to decimate every high street in the land. Any company as large and successful as Tesco faces the same criticisms but the fact remains that their shareholders expect ever-improving business performance. It's far easier for a high street deli to increase their turnover by 50% than it is for a £multi-billion business. That's why Tesco has expanded overseas - the UK is no longer big enough for it. I'm not really defending such things, just trying to understand the reality.

The period property analogy is a good one, but the problem is that the 'value' of such things is mainly held in the minds of people. If, say, absolutely no one cared about high street decline caused by an out of town superstore then, actually, what would be the point of trying to preserve them? Of course, it's not so simple because there will always be a section of the community that does care, so a balance has to be found. But is it fair for, say, 20% to oppose a new superstore that 80% of people would use given a choice? 20% denying the choice of the 80%? Or, in the context of PPUK, 80% of taxpayers paying to preserve historical buildings that only 20% care anything about? Not easy.