Would you replace a ceiling that is not yet falling down?

[yamin]

Odd question I know! Our house has been hermetically sealed with woodchip/vinyl paint and (aaaggggghhh) lots of Artex ceilings. We cannot afford to do all at once, this will be a years long labour of love. Damp man who came the other day (from insurance, drying out leak damaged modern kitchen extension) said that our bathroom ceiling, lath and plaster, is falling down and only prevented from coming down completely because the artex is holding it up. It yields to pressing, and I think he is right that it is no longer stuck.

Its been like that for ages - can we leave it a while longer or is this urgent?
If we have to take it down, can it be replaced with lath and plaster or do we have to have plasterboard?

Save me! This damp guy actually looked at our yully UPVC windows and said "well, at least you've managed to replace the old wooden ones, I can see you've made some improvements!!"

Thanks!

 

[biffvernon]

We've got a bit of ceiling like that. The ceiling paper has held it up for 20 years so far. Maybe don't but your favourite Ming vase underneath it but I wouldn't panic.

When you do get round to it of course it can be repaired with lath and plaster. In fact it's likely that only a very few laths need replacing or perhaps they can just be nailed back and replastered.

 

[Pford75]

I agree with Biff...we've got lots of patches like that. Not top of my list of 'to dos'....mine are all on the top floor....I might be a bit more careful about bouncing around the bedroom if they were downstairs :wink:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Or the old washer and screw/bolt trick to support the weak laths.

 

[yamin]

Thanks Biff and Pete, thats kind of what I thought, and we don't walk above it at all, so not under undue pressure.

See, trouble is that some of these 'operatives' can sound awfully knowledgeable and can send you down a line you thought you were sure you didn't want to go! I did argue with him about sealing the flagstones, and pulling up the quarry tiles in the hall as "because they're laid to earth you'll never get them level you know" and the other classic "your chimney breast is wet, pull off all the plaster (yes agree), let it dry, then cover it with waterproof sealant so you can plaster with gypsum over the top". I ask you!!!

Cheers!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Abi - I think you need a more sympathetic insurance company? I'd probably have sent the chap packing (in a very British way after giving him a cup of tea, so as not to offend him)!

 

[yamin]

Yeah, tell me about it. They are drying out the kitchen. Well, half of it is quarries laid to earth. The modern extension obviously concrete. You know what will happen next - we'll still be here at Christmas with the driers going because the damp meters on the quarry tile side will still read damp. No sh*t Sherlock????

 

[Flyfisher]

We've also got bits of ceiling and walls like that. Fortunately, thick wallpaper and rather thinner ceiling paper is doing precisely the job Biff describes in most places although a few areas have dropped off completely and will need repair in due course.

I'm intending to use FWs suggestion - I think they're called 'repair washers'. These are basically very large washers with a small hole (remember old pennies? - think of something that size with a single screw-hole). The aim is to use a few of these to re-fix the lath and plaster to the underlying ceiling or wall structure, then skimming over the repair washer for an invisible result. I say 'the aim is' because I haven't tried it as yet so have no idea if it's really as easy as it sounds!

 

[yamin]

Now thats interesting. Wouldn't mid a bit more detail on that - I do have a period property sensitive builder so it would be great to discuss that with him.....

 

[Flyfisher]

I can't really add any more as I've never tried such repairs myself (yet!). But I'd have thought that your sensitive builder would have heard of them and, most likely, have used them at sometime.

A quick Google suggests they are also called penny washers (for the reasons in my previous post). I bought a packet some time ago from screwfix for something else - these ones I think: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18383/Bolts/Washers/Large-Flat-Washers-BZP-M8-Pack-of-10

I think I'd use stainless ones in my walls/ceilings though.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Check this previous thread out.

http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9763&p=111615&hilit=lath+washer#p111607

 

[Flyfisher]

Well done - that's probably where I read about it in the first place!

I wonder how Mark got on?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I wonder how Mark got on?

I've pm'd him to ask if he'd post an update. Of course, if the job got bigger and bigger as he pulled off more plaster as he said, he may be just about finishing re-digging his footings by now! :shock:

 

[Ian Bond]

I've used stainless steel repair washers with reasonable results.

The ceiling was sagging where the laths had become detached, so I used the washers to re-fix the laths and secure the margin of the repair.

The same area following re-plastering:

A few coats of limewash completed the job.

 

[chuckey]

I once viewed a house with a similar problem. The point of interest was a carbuncle in the ceiling that sagged about 3", by about 3' long and 2' wide. The owners had done a really good job of re-papering the ceiling but this huge carbuncle defeated them, so the paper was stretched around it as much as possible, leaving a gap of about 6" wide at its widest tapering to nothing at each end, exposing the previous paper through this very wide gap!
Frank

 

[Carol]

If your children are nearly teenagers they may make the decision for you. It is quite surprising how much wobbly ceiling falls down when grumpy thwarted teen slams door of the room in question.

He never slammed doors again!

 

[Ian Bond]

Makes quite a mess doesn't it?

Fortunately only small areas of my ceilings have actually fallen. The prospect of a large, heavy section of lath and plaster falling suddenly is something I'd try to avoid at all costs. If the ceiling's that precarious I'd prop it, and designate the room below as a hard-hat area!

Just in case anyone is contemplating a ceiling repair, here's what I used:

M6 x 30 A2 Stainless Steel Repair Washers.
3.5 x 400 Stainless Steel Turbo Ultra Screws.


The screw thread extends all the way up to the counter sunk head, which gives a secure fixing into laths. The screws also have a sharp point, making them easier to drive into the plaster and studs using a drill-driver.

I got the washers from here (other suppliers of washers are available, just FYI)
http://www.ahc-camberley.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_130_152&products_id=1411

You can also get plastic washers for fixing insulation boards. I've not tried them for plaster repairs but they may be a useful alternative to the steel washers - anyone tried similar?

(scroll down for Fischer Plastic washers)

http://www.womersleys.co.uk/acatalog/Building_Products_3_5.html

 

[yamin]

If your children are nearly teenagers they may make the decision for you. It is quite surprising how much wobbly ceiling falls down when grumpy thwarted teen slams door of the room in question.

He never slammed doors again!

Teenagers?? I have 2 five year olds, and one of them does it frequently already!! I shudder when I hear the poor doors slammed, and the floor wobbling as they both tramp across - and they're only 35lbs each, bless em!

Thanks for all advice. Spoke about the repair system you're suggesting with my sympathetic builder, and he has used such before nad is going to look into it for us.

 

[Lime]

When I was at school the junior common room ceiling completely collapsed when someone let the door slam.
The room was full at the time (about 50 boys) and after the dust had cleared it was a funny sight.
It completely ruined the game of table tennis going on at the time.
Fortunately I had my tuckbox shut, others were not so lucky.

 

[Flyfisher]

Now doubt it was (rightly) shrugged off with some laughter at the time. These days it would probably result in full-on legal action with parents suing the school for damages and emotional stress and social services providing counselling to all the pupils.