would an ingle nook have ever had a hole in the side?

[robgil]

because i think i have found one.
my inglenook was encased in wire mesh and cement render , i stripped all this off to find a sodden brick inglenook behind , it also had a dpc under a cement hearth that was also wringing wet.
anyhow , to the side of the inglenook on the inside there is an arch , its made from modern plaster. on the other side where i removed the wire mesh and cement i found a much bigger hole. at first i thought it was where the bricks had been damaged but then i noticed it to have a constant shape.
its a large arch with a smaller arch inside , the single skin brick inner arch has two diagonal bricks that seem to be acting as a lintel.
now all that is left is a skim of modern cement in-between both sides and i wont remove this until i am sure it wont damage anything.
as you can see i have drilled a hole in it to mark out where the top of the arch is.
there also seems to be an old brick window ledge in the other side of the ingle nook where the same arch has been made from modern cement.View attachment 2

this is the arch from the inside of the cupboard. you can see where i drilled the marker hole.

View attachment 2

View attachment 2

and this is it from the inside of the fire place. note the modern cement arch.

 

[robgil]

sorry , this is the other side.
boy my pics are big. :shock:

 

[robgil]

not sure what happened there , my post went all bish bash bosh for some reason.

 

[christianb]

Yes, I've seen them on several occasions, and most recently in an old manor house near to where I live.

What they are, though, is moot. Bread ovens, perhaps?

 

[robgil]

perhaps, there are no signs of an oven there though , the wall is quite thin so i cannot see where an oven would have been housed. it obviously sent heat out both sides of the fireplace , perhaps a drying cupboard? also , why have one going out through the outside wall of the house? unless they were put in when the lean to was built and it was to heat the lean to?

 

[middi]

Whilst restoring some inglenooks I frequently come across various hidden openings. In most cases the larger arched openings were invariably bread ovens, other openings most common were openings with diagonal bricks above ( as you describe) about a brick deep and one or two bricks high. As inglenooks were the centre of " everything" happening in the house, heating, cooking, storage of "bits" hanging sausages and hams etc. etc. it would be sensible to have "built in" "nooks & crannies".

As the need for such practices were not required they become defunct and a waste of space hence gradually"modernised".

You cupboard space could have been the back of the oven ??

 

[robgil]

it could have been Middi , but why then have one on the other side? i don't exactly know how these ovens would have worked unless the fires they lit were quite large , but i guess why have a large fire place then light a small fire in them..
would the arches have been rounded when they rendered it?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Are you sure the smaller opening originally went right through the wall? salt cupboards are sometimes located alongside the fire - keeps the salt dry.

 

[robgil]

that i don't know for sure Gareth , there are no signs of it being finished on the outside but there does seem to be what remains of a 'sill' at the base of the hole. the arch on top however does not look like a finished arch. the brick work down each side of the outer (bigger) arch on the outside wall would suggest that there were no more bricks tied into the hole.

 

[middi]

Gareth makes a good point, see if the openings (or signs) go through the inglennok sidewall.

The earliest inglenook ovens would have had an arched opening and fired paviours at the base internally with a" removable" wooden Oven door which would have been " sealed" against the opening with wet/damp ashes. As the opening of the oven woud be directly in the inglenook, when bread making was required, fire wood would have been used to get the oven to temperature and the ashes raked out.

The advent of the cast iron doors for these ovens is very much a later "invention".

On a particular case I found two ( oven) openings on left and right side of inglenooks, One of the oven openings which was an integral part of the building had a wooden door bricked in the masonary, The cast iron door was on the opposite side to this but leading to what would have been an external oven.

 

[robgil]

i definitely think the hole went all the way through , the brickwork suggests two arches on either side , a smaller one that went all the way through (presently filled in with wire mesh and cement render) and an outer , bigger arch surrounding the hole. you can see in these pics where i drilled a hole in the modern mesh/render to mark the top of the smaller arch/hole.

this is the arch from inside the fire place , it has the smaller arch behind the mesh render.

View attachment 1

and this is what it would look like if the render was removed , this is the outside of the fire place.

View attachment 1

 

[robgil]

is it just me or is the forum posting my pics twice?

 

[middi]

Only one duplicate as I see.

 

[robgil]

i think i have broken the forum.

 

[middi]

Highly unlikely ( it's aready broken :wink: )

 

[robgil]

not half as broke as my fireplace.
the other side of the fire place has been rebuilt with some nice common? red bricks.
hidden behind the partition wall in front of the stairs, it must have collapsed due to the rubble behind the more modern 'repair'.
i have marked out in red the original bricks , to the left should be open fire place but this has been bricked up also. the original brickwork is still at its original width but should extend up to the lintel and above. a very disappointing find.View attachment 1
behind the repair looks messy.
still , if i can source some Tudor bricks i am sure i can rebuild it , how hard can it be eh?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

still , if i can source some Tudor bricks i am sure i can rebuild it , how hard can it be eh?

Sourcing the bricks needn't be a problem, Peter Minter at Bulmer Brick and Tile (almost on your doorstep) should be able to make some for you, if your chequebook will open to the right width - seriously, new Tudor bricks are available and he's probably the best person to ask locally to you.

 

[robgil]

perfect , thankyou Gareth.

 

[masochists-r-us]

Hi
We have one just the same in our inglenook, albeit ours is on the external wall side. We were told on good authority that is was most likely a bread oven and that from the outside there would have once been a stone built dome shaped or 'bee hive' shaped structure that has clearly been demolished.

 

[robgil]

i am now wondering if this inglenook was ever external and the house was extended around it. some of the timbers and plinth would suggest so.