Windows 7 (OT)

[Penners]

This is seriously off-topic, but has anyone tried Windows 7 (the full retail product, not the earlier Release Candidate) yet?

If so, what are your impressions? Is it faster than that dog of an OS, Vista?

 

[skier-hughes]

Well I've been involved in a lot of the testing of the media side of W7, working on live.
W7 is much leaner and meaner, works faster and uses less resources, but only on a pc that it is meant to run on.

My honest opinion is that if you have an older pc that works well with an old OS I'd stick with it, the new OS's work best on newer pc's, so I wouldn't upgrade from an XP pc to vista or W7, but I would go from Vista to 7 if you bought a new pc recently.

My office pc is older and still runs XP, my video machine is much more powerful and I have dual booting, so I can run vista or 7 as well as XP, just so that I am able to answer peoples queries on whichever system they run.

 

[Nigel Watts]

My 14 year old son has Vista and it's a nightmare - very unstable - but he's become a serious X-box live gamer now so the pressure to fix it has lessened a bit recently. Ive looked into reversing to XP but that does not look straighforward. It was good machine about three years ago, but I guess that's ancient in PC terms. Not sure where I go with it now.

 

[skier-hughes]

3 years old I probably wouldn't go to 7. Was the machine a vista bought one, or did you upgrade it from XP?
If it were me and vista was really that unstable then I'd reformat the hard drive and start afresh with XP.

 

[MdB]

Download a Ubuntu CD and try that (no need to install anything to give it a try, it will run from the CD) http://www.ubuntu.com. Some things are a bit different to Mickysoft but once you get into the different way of working it is just as good. You also get OpenOffice (Word / Excel clone) and access to 10,000+ applications all for free (legally free) and nowhere do you need to pay the Mickysoft tax.

I moved over to Ubuntu a couple of years ago and haven't missed anything in the Mickysoft world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8326264.stm

Having said all of that, I've just bought a new PC and will have Windows 7 as a secondary operating system on it for the few programs that won't run well under Wine.

 

[Flyfisher]

From what I've read, W7 is better than Vista and the upgrade (from Vista) is fairly straightforward. But the jump from XP to either can be problematic.

I've not bothered to upgrade any of my PCs from XP, even my video editing PC (a fairly demanding application).

If you have old PCs that are struggling with any Windows version then I'd second MdB's suggestion of Linux. Last year I decided there was no point keeping an old 600MHz Pentium 3 PC (a piece of computing 'period property' in its own right) so, as an experiment, I downloaded the free Ubuntu version of Linux and it worked fine and is perfectly usable for web browsing and email. Even the (free) Open Office suite runs fine. I guess it would run really fast on a modern PC.

I think Microsoft have a bit of a problem really. After all, nobody actually wants an operating system, anymore than they want an internal combustion engine; they just want a machine that can do useful things or a car that can take them places. Nobody (that I know) ever upgrades their car with the latest engine, they just change the entire car, eventually, and the new engine comes with it. Same with PCs really.

 

[Tom]

Skier-hughes, my stepson has a laptop bought from PC World (I wasn't involved in it's purchase!!) two or three years ago and it came with Vista preloaded. He's always cursed at it from day one :roll: Would you recommend him trying to upgrade to W7 or is his machine just too old? I know I'm being cheeky asking but you know that, by saying you've been involved in a lot of the testing, you'll be inundated with questions :lol:

 

[Moo]

Whenever I read exchanges like this I want to embrace my Mac.

 

[Penners]

My honest opinion is that if you have an older pc that works well with an old OS I'd stick with it, the new OS's work best on newer pc's, so I wouldn't upgrade from an XP pc to vista or W7, but I would go from Vista to 7 if you bought a new pc recently.

I certainly wouldn't try to upgrade an XP machine to Vista or W7. The hardware spec just wouldn't have the power to run it - particularly that stupid Aero interface. However, Mrs P has a 2-yr-old Vista laptop and I have a 2-month-old ditto. I shall, in due course, receive a free W7 upgrade, but I'm principally considering whether to upgrade HID's machine - hence my question about the speed of W7.

Like FF I've read that W7 is less power-hungry, hence faster, than Vista. But I was interested to hear any personal experiences.

After all, nobody actually wants an operating system, anymore than they want an internal combustion engine; they just want a machine that can do useful things or a car that can take them places. Nobody (that I know) ever upgrades their car with the latest engine, they just change the entire car, eventually, and the new engine comes with it. Same with PCs really.

That's a moot point. Just as there are car enthusiasts who will spend oodles of money on chromium plating their fuel injectors and fitting enormous boom boxes in the boot, so there are computer enthusiasts who have to have the latest OS and software. And by all accounts they represent a not inconsiderable market.

Ubuntu

I keep a copy of Puppy Linux on a CD, for use as a lifeboat if Windows sinks without trace, but I've never gone the whole hog and transferred my affections irrevocably. One thing that I've never been sure about is whether Windows applications will run under Linux. Will they?

I have a fair investment in Windows software - principally MS Office, Photoshop and several DTP packages, all of which I love. I'd hate the idea of ditching them. I have tried Open Office, and with its native format files it's fine. But I find it's handling of MS Office files a bit clunky - particularly Powerpoint.

 

[Penners]

Whenever I read exchanges like this I want to embrace my Mac.

That's fine, but have you embraced a Snow Leopard, too?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

 

[Moo]

Not a Snow Leopard, because I upgraded a month before the new cub was born. But my Leopard is very cuddly.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

In my ignorance I thought that this thread referred to a new fangled upvc window --- sorry Penners too complicated for me to comment

 

[Flyfisher]

That's a moot point. Just as there are car enthusiasts who will spend oodles of money on chromium plating their fuel injectors and fitting enormous boom boxes in the boot, so there are computer enthusiasts who have to have the latest OS and software. And by all accounts they represent a not inconsiderable market.

OK, mine was a bit of a sweeping statement; I agree there will always be 'enthusiasts' who delve into the innards of PCs and enjoy tuning them to within an inch of their life and running the latest software (even beta versions), but I still maintain that the vast majority of people just buy a PC and put up with whatever OS is installed. After all, what does an OS actually do other than allow people to run the stuff they really want to use? Yes, it's as essential as the hardware but, like the hardware, it's useless on its own.

Having said that, I also have a fair investment in Windows applications and won't be weaning myself off Windows any time soon. My foray into Ubuntu was just a way of keeping an old PC in use rather than a full-scale rebellion - even though it might be considered a little ostentatious to have a PC in the garage/workshop.

 

[MdB]

Open Office is a good replacement for Word and Excel. Its Powerpoint clone isn't up to much I've heard though I haven't tried it myself. It is available for Window, Linux, Macs and Solaris. http://www.openoffice.org/

Ubuntu will run many windows applications under Wine, indeed it is good enough that it can also catch some windows viruses this way. It won't run everything though. Check your favourite app here: http://appdb.winehq.org/

Oh and my new machine has arrived but I can't get it running as I'm short of a 95p SATA power cable. I can power the hard disc or the DVD player but not both at the same time which makes it it little fun to install the operating system. I tried to do a network boot but my geek credentials failed me and I could only get it to half work...

 

[Penners]

Ubuntu will run many windows applications under Wine

MdB - Do I infer that Wine is a Windows emulation package that runs under Linux? Sound sinteresting.

 

[MdB]

MdB - Do I infer that Wine is a Windows emulation package that runs under Linux? Sound sinteresting.

Don't let anybody from the Wine crew catch you saying that. Wine stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator (yes that is a recursive abbreviation). Wine is an implementation of the windows API - bugs and all, which allows it to run windows programs on Linux. A subtle difference.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I'm with MdB, I've switched over to Kubuntu* about 6 months ago having dabbled with linux on and off for a few years. I have now uninstalled Vista and XP from all the other machines in the house too. We have one XP laptop for the kids so that they are familiar with both linux and microsoft.

Takes a little bit of getting used to, and whilst there is an application to do everything you can with Windows, they're not always as polished - however they are all (well 99.999% are) free.

Given that most of what I use a PC for is surfing (Firefox), music & TV watching (plenty of great choices under linux), wordy-procing (Open Office suite) and photo editing/management (again many great choices), then linnux is great. It's free, stable, not prone to viruses in the same way, fast, and just well, works. Ubuntu has a new release every 6 months with seamless upgrade path, and 10.000= free package to install if you wish.

I'd encourage everyone to pick up a copy of a linux magazine and try one of the LiveCDs of a linux distribution - this will not change your PC in anyway unless you later choose to install.

Penners - Wine is indeed like an emulator (although the title means Wine Is Not an Emulator!) for running windows apps if you have to. Haven't looked at it for a year or so, but it was getting quite good. It is free - but there are paid for variants that have even greater compatability.

*Kubuntu is the same as Ubuntu, except with a different desktop system - Kubuntu uses KDE whereas Ubuntu uses Gnome - I prefer the eye candy with KDE. Everything else is the same under the hood.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I'm so glad to be introduced to the experience of being on the receiving end of a discussion of which I understand nothing. I have no idea how Mr Babbage's Difference Engines work. :?
Once steam has been raised, I open the valves and wait for the interweb but beyond that I confess I am quite at a loss.

 

[Flyfisher]

Now you know how I feel when reading about the finer points of period architecture.

But since we have strayed into the area of free software, is there anyone out there still paying annual subscriptions for the antivirus software typically installed as a short-term free trial on most new PCs? This can be quite expensive, especially if you have more than one PC to support, but there are some very good, and completely free-for-personal-use antivirus packages out there.

I've used Antivir for over five years now without any problems (or viruses!) and I've also heard good reports about AVG.

 

[MdB]

What's a virus? He says smugly using Linux. (There are Linux and Mac viruses but they are very rare)

I use AVG free for windows boxes. It seems to do fairly well but can't keep up with everything, no anti virus can.

It is also worth pointing out that if you visit a website and it claims that you have a virus, do NOT under any circumstances install any software they suggest. The message is fake and the software is the virus. If any program asks for payment for removal of a virus then this is fake too and you will be handing your credit card details over to scammers in Russia.

Be careful people the internet can be a minefield.