What style lighting in kitchen?

[Zebra]

I'm absolutely stuck and cannot decide what I want as lighting for my kitchen. It's in the newly rebuilt flat-roofed front extension, and therefore not in the old part of the house. Plaster will be gypsum, the kitchen will be an off-the-shelf DIY job in a "country" style. However, it is open plan to the old part of the house which has the lime plaster, exposed beams and huge fireplace. In the old room there will be wall lights, and I haven't decided on a style yet for those either, but at least I've been able to put in the wiring for them. And this is the urgency of this decision - to put in the wiring for the kitchen lights so that I can finish the insulation and board the ceiling!
I've ruled out downlighters because I don't want to compromise on insulation - when you install downlighters you have to let the heat from them dissipate, by leaving a hole in your insulation. Having gone to so much trouble to insulate the house, I'm not having that. I don't like downlighters anyway.
There is not much head height. 2080mm from finished floor level to ceiling. That's 6' 10" for those of you who like it that way!! That's much more than in the old part where I've got 1910mm, or 6' 3" but still not enough to have something hanging.
Some have suggested mounting one of those bars with halogen spots on them, on the wall above the archway, pointing upwards. Could do....
There are of course those large flush round ceiling lights. I think they look OK in a bathroom, I'm not sure for a kitchen.
Any ideas?! Most people I ask say "Well you're the electrician!" but all that means is that I can wire them in, I'm no designer, and I don't ever advise customers on what style they should have! And here I am, totally flummoxed and unable to decide!! Many thanks for any help.

 

[steveb]

Flexible LED strip lights - run round the edge of the room, under cabinets etc? Run off of a 12V transformer

Biggest problem I see with kitchens is you probably really do want task lighting going straight down onto worktops, etc for which downlighters are perfect.

LED panel maybe? (http://www.led-supplies.com/led-panels.html) or similar

I did a mixture of LED strip in and under the cabinets, with downlights above the sink and exposed worktops which works well for me

 

[LadyArowana]

Those under cabinet lights are quite good, but in my experience you still need something in the ceiling as well. Will you have an island or any sort of breakfast bar where it wouldn't matter if you had a pendant? Otherwise the choice might be a bit limited, either one of those bathroom enclosed saucer things or a bar or other fitting with small spot lights.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Here is the previous owner's choice for our low ceilinged kitchen - it's all just cheapie stuff from Wickes, I painted it blue.

The spots do give the task lighting but if I had space for above the worktop units I'd definitely want the under unit lights on one separate switch. It's a pain to have 8 different switches though - all my spots have an individual switch, I think thee should be one switch for the spots, and one for the discreet fluorescent tube thing that goes into the hole left by ye olde wash copper

To be honest I'm not keen on the cheap aluminium metal finish of the Wickes lights which looks grubby and a bit institutional somehow. The plan is to replace the spots with these

http://www.jim-lawrence.co.uk/ProductDetail/5664/Single-Curtis-Spot-Light

I particularly like the braided cable which goes well with Bakelite dollies

Where I've got a bit more space I'm having these

http://www.jim-lawrence.co.uk/ProductDetail/8284/Derby-Spot-Lamp


There are possibly some suitable things here but for me the designs are just bordering on being a bit shouty.

http://www.broughtons.com/store/category/12/79/Spot-Lights/

 

[agbagb]

This is a thread the misses will be interested in. We had a long degenerating discussion about what we'll be doing in the cottage kitchen. I need to figure it out for wiring.
So far we're thinking a 2D main light + under cupboard lights + cooker hood lights + something over the sink. Avoiding shadows on all working areas seems to be the problem. I'm thinking of rigging up lead lights etc. to test positioning.
As for the actual fittings, they are with the "curtains and wall paper" for me at the moment. So I'll be interest to see what you come up with!

 

[Feltwell]

We've got a 3 bar halogen spotlight in our kitchen which I don't like and plan to change one day, but we've also got miniature interlinked fluorescents both above and below the wall cabinets - hidden behind a pelmet and cornice. These are surprisingly effective - the above cabinet ones give a nice general soft reflected light off the ceiling above them, the below cabinet ones illuminate the work top very well. They're switched separately, might this be an option for you?

Also, for recessed down lighters - although I realise you're not a fan of them - can you not use fire hoods above them, so minimising the hole in the insulation?

 

[angrybird]

these are quite nice and not too loud.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-Dar-Lighting-Osaka-Wall-Spotlights-in-Antique-Chrome-OSA0761-/380458242822?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Wall_Lights&hash=item5895141306&_uhb=1

 

[Zebra]

Ooh, this is all very helpful.
I do like the single surface mounted spotlights, both your one Joce and your one Angrybird. I suppose I hadn't seen any yet that looked suitably "period" so those links are very helpful.
I am wiring for undercabinet lights on a main switch by the door, but hadn't thought of fluorescent over-cabinet lights, that is a good idea Feltwell though to be honest I think the cabinets may go all the way to the ceiling.
I had considered your idea Lady A of having pendants over a breakfast bar. Problem is I'm not really sure if the breakfast bar idea will work in such a small space, so until I've decided about that.........
I think that's really the problem - like agbagb, I'm not really ready to think about kitchen layout and lighting yet. I've only just got the roof on the darned thing. It's just that the builder (a family member) is prodding me to get it wired so he can come back and plasterboard the ceiling. That's not really an urgent job for me. What I really want to do, now that the stress of the summer's major building works is over, is go play with lime plaster in the old part of the building, and leave the kitchen til I'm ready to think about it!
But those single surface mounted spotlights, I do like them. Of course, they're also very expensive!

 

[Zebra]

Also, for recessed down lighters - although I realise you're not a fan of them - can you not use fire hoods above them, so minimising the hole in the insulation?

Fire hoods are to stop the spread of fire from one floor to the next through the holes that you make in the fire-resistant barrier between floors ie the plasterboard. They're not to stop the fitting itself from catching fire. Downlighters get very hot and need ventilation to dissipate the heat that builds up in them, to stop them from melting their own cables. The thing is there are no hard and fast rules about how much of a gap must be left in the insulation, as far as I am aware. I know those who leave a hole a foot square in solid Kingspan type insulation. In a loft where there is plenty of airflow and rockwool type insulation the gap can be smaller.
I have recently seen downlighters which claim that they can be fully covered with insulation but I don't know how they would manage to dissipate heat. You can also get halogen lamps that claim to project all their heat downwards. LEDs of course don't get so hot.
I just don't think much of downlighters though. I get so many call outs to repair them, and over time they break away a bit more of the hole in the ceiling, until after a few years they just look scruffy.

 

[agbagb]

Agbagb's Missus

In our Victorian house, we have a flush flourescent thingy as a central light, not very period but so unobtrusive you dont really see it. This gives a good overall light. We also have downlight spots but they're placed too far away from the walls so I end up standing in my own light :evil: I'm determined we're going to get it right in the Whitby cottage as I find that shadows + sharp knives = less fingers. I like the sound of the LED under counter lights and I do like the downlights as you don't really see them. Much as it pains me, Andy's suggestion of playing around with halogens etc. seems a sensible way to go. Obviously he thinks light fittings are up there with curtains and limewash colour charts but I have to do the hard work of choosing so he can do the easy bit like working out ring mains etc. :lol:

 

[Owain]

A 'globe' light fits fairly close to the ceiling but will give a better all-round light than spotlights.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/globe-white-chrome-ceiling-light-60w/55304
http://www.wickes.co.uk/globe-flush-ceiling-light-white/invt/700435/

Fit several on individual switches for different light levels at different times. They're cheap enough you can always replace them with other fittings later.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Both Jim Lawrence lights are lovely

 

[LadyArowana]

I am wiring for undercabinet lights on a main switch by the door, but hadn't thought of fluorescent over-cabinet lights, that is a good idea Feltwell though to be honest I think the cabinets may go all the way to the ceiling.
I had considered your idea Lady A of having pendants over a breakfast bar. Problem is I'm not really sure if the breakfast bar idea will work in such a small space, so until I've decided about that.........
I think that's really the problem - like agbagb, I'm not really ready to think about kitchen layout and lighting yet. I've only just got the roof on the darned thing. It's just that the builder (a family member) is prodding me to get it wired so he can come back and plasterboard the ceiling. That's not really an urgent job for me. What I really want to do, now that the stress of the summer's major building works is over, is go play with lime plaster in the old part of the building, and leave the kitchen til I'm ready to think about it!

Unfortunately, I am going to tell you that which you don't want to hear, and which I'm sure in your heart you know..... Which is that in order to get the best lighting decisions you need to have a good idea of the kitchen layout. Sorry.

Whilst a spotlight arrangement will always be ok because you can adjust them to a certain degree later, aesthetically speaking a pendant or two over a sink, island or breakfast bar might be nicer. I planned my kitchen well in advance of the wiring and had even bought the lights and was very happy with the results. In the dining area I thought "how hard can it be, it's a table in that end of the room" and popped the pendant where I thought it looked ok, and if I am honest it could be better, possibly ( there are complicating factors like a mansard roof to one side and big steel beams in the ceiling, but it's still a few cms off ideal ).

I totally agree about those inset down lighters though, my experiences with them have not been good, fiddling with the fittings to change bulbs eventually damages the plasterboard. We have had them actually fall out of the ceiling, which upsets the elephants terribly.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Poor elephants!

So agree with that post LadyA, the kitchen needs careful working out and planning. Fortunately with Zebra being a sparky she can change any mistakes she makes once she's living with the kitchen, but I'm sure she knows all too well what a total pain this is.

We're altering all the previous owners poor lighting placements and cheap choices, to date this is our most expensive work. Lighting is so important, it's the focal point to the room and it directs attention to the objects it illumininates, it has just got to be attractive to you in my opinion. You have to think about whether your furnishings carpets and fabrics will be traditional or contemporary ( broadly speaking, I'd put the simple, utility chrome type fittings with contemporary) and pick your lights accordingly. There are a lot of weird and wonderful designs out there, a lot of tangled bits of wire exploding into random crystals and bulbs, I think they're better in Europe than the UK. There are a lot of twee things, cheap attempts at the Gothic and the medieval, pastiche Victorian lantern arrangements, with the worst examples being at the big DIY type outlets. I'm afraid I am a lighting snob but I really think if there isn't the budget for good quality then get designs that will be as unobtrusive as possible.

The globe in Owain's link above was fitted in our scullery by my father in law when I wasn't there. I regret not stepping in, it's a head banger and unattractive to my eye because it doesn't blend in to its setting, which is a very old limewashed area with Victorian butler's sink to skin the rabbits and pluck pheasants and the old 19th C iron hooks still there to hang them on. It's an area where you need modern light but it must be tiny and discreet.

Each room has got to be worked out so carefully, this can't be rushed. I'd ask the family builder to leave it.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Both Jim Lawrence lights are lovely

Oh, but you'd need hundreds of them my dear. We must find you some lovely blacksmith made ironwork I think for the main rooms.

 

[Essex]

We have just put the black Hector spot lights from Ikea, with mains LED lights. House is 14C so surface mounted.
Have Jim Lawrence elsewhere, but loved price of Hector, could have done whole house for price of one Jim Lawrence.
Caveat is LED light, it is warm and fine on it's own, but if you put CFL close to it, it is slightly more blue. Benefit is that it is mains, comes on immediately, and bright.

 

[Zebra]

Unfortunately, I am going to tell you that which you don't want to hear, and which I'm sure in your heart you know..... Which is that in order to get the best lighting decisions you need to have a good idea of the kitchen layout. Sorry.

Whilst a spotlight arrangement will always be ok because you can adjust them to a certain degree later, aesthetically speaking a pendant or two over a sink, island or breakfast bar might be nicer. I planned my kitchen well in advance of the wiring and had even bought the lights and was very happy with the results.

You're so right. I have more or less planned the kitchen, but am still prevaricating over a couple of options. Perhaps some procrastination is in order, with the appropriate confectionery of course. I think pendants over the sink would be very nice, although it's right in front of the window, so I don't know whether that would look weird.

 

[Zebra]

Got it! Found some wall space in the kitchen plan, and a combination of wall lights there for general lighting, and undercabinet lights for functional task-oriented lighting will do the job just great.
A peruse of the Jim Lawrence site has been very helpful, thanks so much JoceandChris. Although I might not run to £80 ish per light, it has given me inspiration to decide what I want.
Thanks all!

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Essex, what is CFL?

 

[Owain]

Compact Fluorescent Lamp