What order must works be done in?

[piapiapiano]

We've got a big list of works -- some more essential than others -- but we have no idea what order it'd be best to get them done in.

INDOORS:

- re-pointing internal stone walls with lime mortar
- re-building stud walls with breathable board
- probably lining internal stone walls with breathable board
- re-plastering interior with lime
- new ceilings -- also to be plastered
- replacing water-damaged particle board floors with proper floorboards (1st floor and attic room)
- removing a couple of radiators, and putting a couple of new ones in in different places
- re-wiring the whole house
- replacement wooden windows -- either sash or casement
- new internal window sills, and new external window sills
- new doors throughout
- sand and wax the beams in attic
- strap bulging front wall back onto buildling structure
- install multi-fuel stove in living-room fireplace
- get varnish off living-room fireplace
- attempt to remove rock-hard cement pointing from living-room fireplace, and replace with lime mortar

OUTSIDE

- new guttering
- repair both chimney stacks
- fix bodged area on east side of house where rain is able to get in under the slates at the edge
- lower ground level of rear yard where it meets the house (ground floor level of house was apparently lowered by 6 inches when previous owners put in the concrete slab, so it's now only an inch above external level -- nothing can be done about the front exterior, which is a tarmac street, unfortunately)
- strip off cement render
- re-render with lime

So far we've been happily hacking away at the internal stone walls -- which were all covered in cement rather than plaster -- but it's probably time we started tackling all the other jobs too.

The outside jobs have been delayed by the conservation officer -- he's taking a very long time to decide whether to allow us to apply for a grant. And if we do any work before approval, they won't give us a grant at all.

So, before we start off all wrong. Is there anything on either list that should obviously happen in a particular order?

Progress pictures here: http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c51/piapiapiano/House%20stuff/

 

[FamilyWiggs]

In principle I would tackle in the order of:

Structural works - including tieing in walls
External jobs that make the place weather and water-proof - including lowering ground works.
Internal jobs that would impact upon decorative works - electrics, plumbing, ceilings, etc.
Internal decorative works - plastering, beams, etc.

However, the combined experience of PPUK will tell you that no project goes to plan (or budget) - therefore rather than a very detailed order you need to be flexible on the programme, picking up jobs as circumstances dictate/allow.

Many will suggest that there is a sense once the structural/weatehrproofing is done to proceed a room or two at a time, rather than doing all the plastering and then all the beams, etc. This can help to maintain your sanity (some rooms to retreat to and live in) and motivation as the project clearly progresses and has successful end points thorughout.

It certainly looks an interesting place - keep taking the photos!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Oh and don't sand the beams. It destroys their patina. Beams are best tackled with buckets of elbow grease, soapy water and the range of poultices available from Strippers of Sudbury.

http://www.stripperspaintremovers.com/I_want_to_remove.htm will help you remove almost anything from anything.

 

[Moo]

- and it's a messy business, so make sure it's the first thing you tackle in each room.

 

[Penners]

Very sensible observations from FW and Moo above, with which I completely concur.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Gosh - the rarely observed PPUK consensus. It must surely be a portent of wondrous things to come! A Blue moon perhaps? 8)

 

[Pford75]

It's a complex question....and one, which if you are not experienced at managing building works might be worth considering the services of a surveyor (they can help you order the works and draft the specifications) aas this could save you time and money. If you are keen to tackle this yourself (bearing in mind there are lots of other variables)...I would do in the following order:-

Do nothing without having the relevant permissions.

Structural / weatherproofing

- strap bulging front wall back onto buildling structure
- strip off cement render (and allow to dry out)
- new guttering
- fix bodged area on east side of house where rain is able to get in under the slates at the edge
- lower ground level of rear yard where it meets the house (ground floor level of house was apparently lowered by 6 inches when previous owners put in the concrete slab, so it's now only an inch above external level -- nothing can be done about the front exterior, which is a tarmac street, unfortunately)
- re-render with lime

(Good to try and get these done before next Winter)

First Fix

- re-wiring the whole house (assuming you are living there, you will need to do both 1st & 2nd fix)
- repair both chimney stacks (assuming not structural repairs)
- re-pointing internal stone walls with lime mortar
- re-building stud walls with breathable board
- probably lining internal stone walls with breathable board

Second Fix

- re-plastering interior with lime
- new ceilings -- also to be plastered
- removing a couple of radiators, and putting a couple of new ones in in different places
- attempt to remove rock-hard cement pointing from living-room fireplace, and replace with lime mortar
- replacing water-damaged particle board floors with proper floorboards (1st floor and attic room)
(normally considered first fix, but putting them here avoids getting plaster on them)
- replacement wooden windows -- either sash or casement
- new internal window sills, and new external window sills
- new doors throughout
- sand and wax the beams in attic
- install multi-fuel stove in living-room fireplace
- get varnish off living-room fireplace

 

[piapiapiano]

Thanks, everyone! Pford75 -- your list is really helpful. I'm going to copy it onto my hard drive right now!

 

[Lime]

Wot!
No mention of buying curtains and pillows accompanied by big bowls of flowers regularly placed in strategic, empty (i.e. cleared) work space?

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: piapiapiano must be a boy!

But, seriously, though, that's a very scary list. I read it out to Chris and said "should we be doing all that?" (The answer was a definite no, stick with flower-arranging)

piapiapiano, I advise you to have lots of breaks, and hope you have thousands and thousands of pounds, and you aren't living on site. Good luck!

 

[Nigel Watts]

When I moved into my current house in 1999 (still work in progress by the way) I was all for the rational approach of getting the outside fixed first, then the heavy interior works, then somewhere towards the end the decorating, starting with the main rooms then ending up with the bedrooms.

My wife would have none of it. She insisted on getting the top floor (of four - it's a tall but narrow townhouse) and its bathroom fully decorated and fitted out as step one - just the bit I would have done last. We had a four year old and a newly born baby at the time.

She was right, of course, as she usually is. This became our haven when the rest of the house was a building site and in utter chaos. It is true that the leaky roof caused some damp stains in the new paintwork but these are easily remedied.

 

[piapiapiano]

I'm a girl. And the house we've bought has been completedly bodged by the previous owners.

After years of neglect, the back and side walls are completely saturated, which is why we're removing the cement coating (and it is cement, rather than plaster, for all the internal stone walls). And also why we're probably going to have to line the inside with breathable board rather than plastering straight onto the walls. It could take several years for them to dry out, and I'd rather not have my very expensive piano backed up against a damp wall.

The front wall is coming off, which is why it needs to be strapped back on.

When we removed the (mostly wet) cement from the walls, we found that the original lime mortar had turned into dust, which is why we're repointing.

The windows have all gone rotten along the bottom, because they're set in between the internal and external sills, rather than on top of them, which is why we're replacing all of that. They're not the original windows, and we've been told that it'd cost as much to repair the damaged sections as to make lovely new sash windows.

The particle board flooring has had extensive water damage, which is why we're thinking of replacing it with proper wood.

Water is getting in through the chimney stacks, which is why they need repairing.

The broken guttering has caused a huge amount of damage to walls and woodwork...

None of the doors fit and several of them are broken, which is why they need replacing.

Installing a stove in the fireplace might help the house dry out a bit.

I don't know, though. These things seem like essential and urgent works. Are there things I could just forget about for a year or two? It has occurred to me that we could hack off the external render, and not re-render for a while. And we could put up breathable board on the internal walls, and not bother re-plastering for a while. Is there anything else I could safely leave?

I agree with your wife, Nigel! We're hoping to get one room basically habitable so that we'll have somewhere to sleep. The kitchen and bathroom are ugly but functional, so the house is not a total write-off. And the back yard is fine, so there'll always be somewhere pleasant to sit on a sunny day.

 

[Flyfisher]

If the guttering has been broken for quite some time then the affected walls are likely to be completely saturated and can be expected to take a fair while to fully dry out. One month for each inch-thickness of wall is a general rule of thumb, although quite variable depending on precise construction. My point is that it would be good to take maximum benefit from the pending summer weather by getting the roof and gutters fixed as quickly as possible. Even a single shower will dump enough water to 'top-up' the walls and could quite easily reverse a few weeks of dry weather.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, poor piapiapiano, I really do sympathise and wish you all the very best for your endless list. Yes, the render could be stripped externally and left to dry out for a year or two, as long as the guttering's working. We've done that on a little section here and it's dried out the dining room.

I hope you can get all the damp-causing things done in the near future, and take your time over slightly more cosmetic things like repointing and new floors and doors. If you can get your lovely piano in a dry spot, I'd live with the property for a good long while and let it dry out before deciding about drylining the whole lot. That sounds really drastic.

Can your window job be broken up? Get the worst ones done initially, and slowly have more made?

I agree with Nigel's wife too, if I wasn't able to decorate I'd go crazy living here - and I do it with the risk that my decorations may be damaged by future works. I'm lucky that there's a clear division between the ground floor, which is all fine, and the basement, which needs tons of work.

I also made the, possibly wrong, decision that cement skimming here and there over the old lime plaster on the ground floor would stay put, along with the layers and layers of unbreathing paint. Stripping all that lot is too much for one person - there are limits. I think the house is saved by all the fires, the draughty chimneys, the draughty windows, and the suspended bare wooden floors over earth. (the basement is only under 1/2 the house) The damp guys came in and scared me with high levels on their wretched metres, telling me all the plaster needed to be hacked off to 2/3 height, but in fact there's no evidence of damp on the ground floor, so I'm very glad we ignored them.

It does sound like you have a bit of a marathon ahead, but it will be a very rewarding journey I'm sure.

 

[AMc]

If you're DIY then I would follow Pford75 list as a great guide. Work on getting the top watertight and the render off the outside to get drying now the weather has improved

If you're paying anyone to do this or some of this then I would strongly advise you consider getting in contractors and moving out for a 6 month short term let very nearby - so you can make sure they're working hard not putting your house on the back burner.

I reckon that not clearing the house of all our stuff, having to keep heat, power and water connected at all times and at least 2 bedrooms contributed to our overrun and also overspend. 6 months rent on a small house nearby would have allowed the trades to come in work in all rooms at once. I spent a lot of time moving our stuff from room to room and while we lived in the house, it wasn't pleasant. When we lifted all the downstairs floors it was genuinely horrible.

As this was my "full time job" it meant I woke up in my "office" and went to bed in the "office" every day, 7 days a week for over a year. That was very, very stressful esp. when things were going badly and the money was running out.

Good luck!

 

[Pford75]

I understand and sympathise with the desire to get cracking on the decorating. We had the same urges, but managed to hold off for 4 years before doing anything (meaning we lived with bare lightbulbs, threadbare carpets etc. for ages).

I would highlight your rewiring as a big factor in what you choose to do. I'm almost certain that you will want switches and sockets in places where there are none today and that the reqire will involve some significant chasing/damage to plaster etc. That would mean that any room which is decorated now, will almost certainly have to be redone.


We took the view that with a job this large, we simply couldnt afford (or stomach) redoing work. If you are determined to finish one or two rooms, then it might be worth considering having just these rooms rewired as a circuit themselves and leaving the rest of the house.

I do however agree with FF, that fixing guttering is a priority. It's amazing how much damage can be done by 6 months of leaking guttering

 

[AMc]

We took the view that with a job this large, we simply couldn't afford (or stomach) redoing work.

This is the most soul destroying part for me. As a result of various bodges I've ended up digging and redigging a trench across my drive 3 times. While it's done in a day and the only damage is I need to buy a truck load of gravel and find another £150 it feels like going backwards.

Repainting areas you've just completed makes me want to cry as I loath painting at the best of times.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I take your point about rewiring Pford, but to raise a slightly controversial topic, there are certain kinds of wiring that are still allowed as a DIY job. We were assured by a qualified electrician that the wiring we did as part of our decorating the bedroom last year was completely legal and did not require any formal signing off. Taking the same precautions, we'll approach the small changes to the wiring we plan to make as part of the decorative scheme, alongside things like repair of wooden sills and windows, and patching of poor plaster work. The chasing out and subsequent refilling of the channel was really a very minor thing in comparison with a complete replastering.

It all depends on the scale, of course, this house is basically fine in terms of wiring and it's just a case of the odd extension of the system.

We were also told by this same electrician, who lectures in the subject at Peterborough College, that any complete new system -for example we want a whole new system in the garden- will need the correct paperwork.

 

[Moo]

And don't forget the Murphy's Law of wiring; however many power points you install, you will always (after making good, decorating, laying carpets, polishing floors....) realise that you really should have put an extra one in that corner/the other side of that door/the other side of the fireplace........

 

[lou]

Piapiapiano
We had a similar problem and just taking the cement render off, fixing the guttering, opening windows regularly, keeping lights on a lot (oops, not very green but they are low voltage or whatever their called) to keep air circulating has made an enormous difference already and we haven't had the roof fixed yet. It's not completely dry yet, but already the dry rot is backing off and the smell has improved - noticeably. I'd say that the guttering was the most effective and then the cement render. Good luck!