What do you call external scotia?

[kreyszig]

I'm trying to replace some rotten timber on the barge boards of our gables. There is an L shaped section at the top edge of the barge board about 2.5" vertical x 1.5" horizontal, if it was inside it would be called scotia.
Another wider piece of timber sits horizontally on the top of this and the barge board (not in the photo below).

All the scotia in the timber yards I've visited is much smaller, and I'm wondering if I'm asking for the right thing? Any ideas where to find this would be most welcome.

Here's a picture:



(Yes you're correct, that is a horrible piece of upvc in the background. It got blown off in the storms and is going back on until we re-roof.)

 

[paulb33]

We're doing a similar job here. Rightly or wrongly, we're removing this outer board and not replacing it. In our case, it doesn't seem to provide structural support but adds a vulnerable point of water ingress. Going back to a single timber gives a cleaner look.

I note your timbers seem to originally be stained/painted dark brown. Will you be repainting?

Paul

 

[88v8]

I suspect it would have been made to order. Ask a local timberyard, one with its own machining facilities, to make you a length.
If you've stripped the whole verge, it will be easy to keep water from penetrating between the bargeboard and the verge moulding by leading or even felting over the top.

Ivor

 

[kreyszig]

I'm not sure they were ever dark brown, I think that dark staining is just age/dirt.
Anyway no plans to change from white at the moment, I think it matches the mock tudor look nicely:



I'm trying to decide now whether to go for linseed oil paint or not, I've already taken off a lot of the flaking you can see above but it's had a temporary acrylic put on in the meantime.

The front barge boards are already clad in pvc, i'd like to get them back to wood eventually but for now I'm mostly focused getting it watertight. The scaffolding happens to be up around the gables for that so I'm doing them while I have the chance, but I foresee a proper restoration further down the line

 

[kreyszig]

I suspect it would have been made to order. Ask a local timberyard, one with its own machining facilities, to make you a length.
If you've stripped the whole verge, it will be easy to keep water from penetrating between the bargeboard and the verge moulding by leading or even felting over the top.

Ivor

verge moulding, that's the one! a quick google leads to some inspiration: here
I'll chop a bit off and take it down to the local (expensive) machine shop then, cheers!

 

[paulb33]

I'm not sure they were ever dark brown, I think that dark staining is just age/dirt.
Anyway no plans to change from white at the moment, I think it matches the mock tudor look nicely:

Nice house! Heavily influenced by Richard Norman Shaw. For example, Cragside (below).

Pure speculation on my part, but I suspect the bargeboards and roof overhang matched the tudor half-timbering. They will have succumbed to our taste for brilliant white as modern paints emerged. Thereafter, folks realised that the same effect was possible with 'maintenance free uPVC'.

As you say, best kept white unless your neighbour is going to change too.

 

[kreyszig]

Thanks! That's real food for thought, those dark gables do look good.

Don't suppose you could offer/ can see any clues on the build date?
We're having trouble pinning it down exacly; vendor told us 1897 but it doesn't show up in census maps until 1910.

 

[paulb33]

Thanks! That's real food for thought, those dark gables do look good.

Don't suppose you could offer/ can see any clues on the build date?
We're having trouble pinning it down exacly; vendor told us 1897 but it doesn't show up in census maps until 1910.

I had dated it to 1895 in my mind, before you revealed that. Whereabouts are you? I'd say 1895 to 1905 would make sense.... It would be reflecting Norman Shaw's Bedford Park built in c1880. To be fair, there are many original white painted houses in Bedford Park (see below). Albeit, few with white bargeboard and dark timber verticals that your house has.

Post some internal shots, fireplaces and staircases, perhaps?

Gorgeous window and balcony details, BTW. How did that avoid the skip and not be replaced with plastic? And, is that unpainted render? Again, lovely to see the patina of staining, which is more typically obliterated by Dulux.

 

[kreyszig]

We're in Morriston - I think the house was part of the Lyons estate, and sold off in the 1919/20 auctions, if that means anything to you.

Unfortunately I can't see anything on the census because I can't tell which road it is on! It's on the corner of a cross roads and the name and number of the houses on those roads seems to change an awful lot. I'm hoping due to the Lyons/Penrice link that there'll be some info in the Welsh archives, but haven't gotten around to taking a look yet.

We weren't sure about the render, whether it was original or not. You're right though, it's great that it hasn't been painted. We have original sashes on the front and the sides the top, but the lower side windows have been upvc'd sadly. The inside is a bit special,we think. I might start a new thread for some pictures - thanks for your help so far!

I should add that we've been in since August so can't take any credit for preservation! Not yet anyway

 

[paulb33]

The render would surely have to be original with the lovely brick quoins. Devil of a job to re-render otherwise.

You'll be amazed what can be found in the local archives. Pop your street name in here and you may find something on your lovely house:

http://www3.swansea.gov.uk/CalmView/Advanced.aspx

 

[Penners]

I would call that moulding 'cavetto' (rightly or wrongly!).

 

[Moo]

If you click on the original photo you'll find some very appetising photos - elaborate floor tiling, elegant furniture, gorgeous birds (feathered), and enviable motor cars.

 

[paulb33]

I would call that moulding 'cavetto' (rightly or wrongly!).

I'd say 'rightly' in this case, Mr Penners.

 

[kreyszig]

If you click on the original photo you'll find some very appetising photos - elaborate floor tiling, elegant furniture, gorgeous birds (feathered), and enviable motor cars.

Woops! I thought I'd segregated all the house stuff off!

 

[88v8]

Superb Green Man carving.
And that brown bird with the face is, unusual.

Ivor

 

[kreyszig]

Well in the end I decided to make my own. I used cheap CLS studwork, made myself a router table from 18mm ply, shelled out 30 quid for a 1" radius bit, and hey presto!





I've also decided the pvc is not going back on and will be replacing with timber, as nature intended. Fingers crossed the scaffolding doesn't get taken down in the meantime!

 

[Flyfisher]

Nice job - that's the sort of improvisation and ingenuity we like on here. Well, I do anyway.

I like the timber guides (the black things) - where did you get them from?

 

[kreyszig]

thanks! I got the featherboards from the same place I got the router bit - Axminster. They are a bit steep on delivery as they only do next-day, but the boards themselves were under a tenner a pair.

After I bought them I found out that they are pretty easy to make if you have a table saw (which I don't) - just cut slots at 30 degrees. For the outlay though they are well worth it.

They come with t-bolts for installation into a t-bar; I pinched two for the fence, hence only one board on the fence itself. I just routed a slot on the underside of the table and they work really well.


link here: http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-vertical-featherboards-pair

I also got the switch there too - my router has a dead-mans switch so I have to tape the thing on permanently - much safer to use the NVR switch (~£20, from the same place).

 

[Penners]

FF - it's easy to make your own feather springs. I've found that the best material is birch ply - usually 15mm or 18mm thick. Just cut a rectangular block of it about 200mm long x 100mm wide, then cut into it a series of diagonal cuts along one long edge to about 75 - 80% of the depth - each feather about 10mm wide. Screw the block to the surface of your router table in a position that will flex the feathers sufficiently to press the workpiece firmly into the fence. Obviously the feathers should be angled towards the direction of travel of the workpiece.

If you want to make your spring positions adjustable, fix them to the router table with bolts through slots.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks for the pointer kreyzig. I should have known that really, as I'm on the Axminster mailing list, though I don't always look through their catalogue as it usually ends up costing me money. Looks like it will again soon. :lol:

I don't actually have a router table but I've been thinking about making something as I've been using my router more and more now that my project moves towards the decorative rather than the structural and I reckon that a spindle moulder would be better than a router, with a router table being a good compromise given the apparent cost of decent spindle moulders.

Interesting suggestion about the DIY feather springs Penners, I wouldn't have thought ply would be springy enough because of the ways the grain of the various layers are arranged. Perhaps birch ply is different somehow? I've got plenty of 18mm WBP ply so perhaps I'll give that a go.