Wet underfloor heating and stone

[Sonyaclegg]

Joce, I think we will have a satellite kitchen on the 3rd floor. Maybe I will be able to find a piece of furniture and adapt it to allow a fridge and tea making facilities to be hidden away in it. Otherwise, it's down many treads to get to the kitchen. If we are in the bedrooms, it's even further.

Lady A, my husband needs more than a drawer. In the last house, I dare not venture into the garage as it was full of his essentials. He also had a man cave in the form of the snooker room. He built a detached annexe to house his table! Is he trying to tell me something? in the new house, there are many cellars so I'm sure they will become his domain save one for my ceramics studio.

My husband is good at the practical side of life. I gave up 12 years ago when I almost drilled through the gas pipe behind the cooker when fitting a utensil rack. I pulled the drill out and peered into the hole and was quite alarmed to find the copper pipe indented by the drill head. We had to get a plumber in to fit a new section of pipe.

I'm still debating the floor covering after all the excellent replies. I'm off to a stone yard next week to look at their riven yorkstone to compare to their sawn yorkstone. I'm awash with limestone samples and I may have to make them into something as it seems a shame to discard them.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Yorkstone sample for kitchen, pantry, hall and utility. It's 50mm. Over an 18mm board for the underfloor heating poly pipe. Not sure yorkstone is the best option. It raises the floor height too much and interferes with the doors. Back to the limestone samples unless I can find someone who will supply yorkstone at 20-30 mm. I'm never going to get anything done!

 

[Zebra]

I'm never going to get anything done!

I know how you feel, the decision making phase seems so hard, seems to drag on, and you wish someone would just tell you what to do. But then again when they do tell you what to do you're still not sure. I find that knowing what to do is the hardest part, harder than the actual doing. But hang in there, you'll make the right decisions in the end, and will love the choice you've made.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Thank you Zebra. Wise words which I can relate to all other areas of life other then this. It doesn't help that my hubs has no opinions. Such a cop out!

 

[agbagb]

Agb's Missus

Oh Sonya, sometimes what I wouldn't give for a Hubby who "cops out" instead of just DOING :lol: :lol: We're in "heated" discussions at the moment about heat exchangers. He's Mr. Green/ New technology and I'm really scared that such newfangledness will do a 300yr old cottage no good :roll: We need help from a PPUKer who has already tried this

 

[AMc]

Agb's Missus

Oh Sonya, sometimes what I wouldn't give for a Hubby who "cops out" instead of just DOING :lol: :lol: We're in "heated" discussions at the moment about heat exchangers. He's Mr. Green/ New technology and I'm really scared that such newfangledness will do a 300yr old cottage no good :roll: We need help from a PPUKer who has already tried this

I can't see why it wouldn't work. Dependable, controlled ventilation is likely to be a positive thing though you'd need to carefully draughtproof to make your energy bills better.
I would have a good read over at http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/?CategoryID=4 where experts in Green hang out. You may choose to take some of the advice on period properties with a pinch of salt.

 

[agbagb]

Agb's Missus

AMc, I feel I must 'fess up that my main concern is noise from the unit. We have nowhere to "hide" it and sound proofing will be nigh on impossible as our walls dividing our rooms are just wood panelling and we can't soundproof between floors either. I'm all for ventilation and need no persuasion in its benefit to old houses, but I just don't see how it's feasible in our particular cottage.

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Mrs agb, I did a lot of research in relation to heat pumps and air pumps in relation to another period property we were going after. Ice Energies ( think they are called that) offer a free consultation/survey for feasibility so that could be an idea? Impartial advice may assist you both at this stage. I'm sure other suppliers offer the same service. There are grants available, or at least there were.

 

[agbagb]

Thanks for that Sonya, I'll get him on to that when he gets back. I like the idea in principle, I'd just like to hear one in action. I've been informed that some are as low as 20db but something constantly humming could become very annoying I fear and once it's in it's in. Just hoped someone on here would have experience of living with one

 

[Schoolmarm]

It would be outside your cottage. It would look awful but I don't think you will hear it inside. I am torn. I want one but I don't want it stuck on an outside wall like a great big modern lump.

 

[DJH]

Hmm. Mrs DJH feels the same but says her lump is indoors. :roll: I'm not sure what she means but I recall when she was asked why she didn't keep a pig she said she had one already??? :lol: :lol:

 

[agbagb]

Agb's Missus

Schoolmarm, that is the problem. We're in a conservation area so the only place we may be allowed to put it outside would be in the gennel but they're way to big for that. So if we did have one it would, at the very least, have to be half in and half in the gennel so I'm pretty certain we would be able to hear it. You're right I also don't fancy having half a great lump there either!

 

[AMc]

Are you talking about an Air Source Heat Pump (ASHP) or a Mechanical Heat Recovery and Ventilation system (MHVR)?

A MHRV is usually a collection of air ducts piped into each room from a central heat exchanger, usually in the loft. Warm, stale air is moved out through a heat exchanger to transfer the heat into incoming cold, fresh air. Warm, wet air from bathrooms and kitchen extractors is very useful in this kind of system. Sometimes there is an electric heater included in the exchanger to deal with very cold weather but they are seldom the primary heating system in a normal house. This system useful in very air tight houses to provide clean, fresh air without introducing draughts or losing valuable heat. It is a critical component of the Passiv Haus design where the house is heavily insulated and air sealed and heat from the occupants and their activities provides all the space heating required without any boilers etc. In most period houses it isn't practical to insulate and seal to the point where PH could be achieved though it has been done IIRC.

An ASHP is a method of supplying a supply of heated water to radiators and/or underfloor heating - we have 2 - they are essentially an air conditioner running in reverse. They work by refrigerating air outside to "pump" the heat into a coolant loop. This is then pumped into the house and the heat is exchanged with the water in the heating system and/or hot water tank like a conventional boiler They work quite efficiently, but the efficiency drops as the air temperature drops towards freezing. In order to heat the water efficiently the flow temperature is lower than a gas or oil boiler typically around 40C which means you need oversize radiators or underfloor heating and it is essential that the house is insulated and draught proofed.

My 2 units are rated at 16KW and each have 2, 2 foot fans. When the air temperature is near 0 they make a fairly loud noise as they are all blowing air through as fast as possible. The noise is comparable with the oil boiler they replaced but we sited them 13m from the house facing towards us and shielded from the neighbours by a brick wall so they are much less intrusive (to us) and we've never had any complaints from the neighbours.

There are plenty of good renewable providers all of who will give you an idea of what you need.
in my humble opinion you need to have a really long look at your current energy use and the thermal efficiency of a period house before you decide to go down this route. Our renovation brought our house to the same thermal standard as the 2006 building regulations and the ASHP specified struggled which is why we ended up with 2. On paper 1 should have been enough but we were perhaps unlucky to turn it on just before the coldest winter on record.
You can get a good idea of the size of unit your would need (physically and its heating capacity) by looking at your last 12 months fuel bills and converting that into KWh over each quarter then by day. IIRC Heating oil provides 10 units (KWh) of heat per litre.

My system was provided by http://www.renenergy.co.uk/products.aspx?type=renewable-heat who I would recommend and operate nationwide.