Well experts/advice *PIC*

[Anonymous]

We finally got round to shfting all the stone from where the previous owners of our house said the "well" is... and what do you know there is one there...

However it is kind of puzzling and a bit spooky.

From ground level to the water is about 10-12 feet.

A plumb bob lowered until it stopped gave a total depth (ground level to mud) of about 50 feet. Diameter is about 3feet.

But just below the water level it looks like it opens out into a chamber.

Accross the chamber there appears to be a big pipe or similar running straight accross, you can just see the greenish sahdow of it in this picture (to the right of the floating bottle).

We live on quite a big hill so this isnt likely to be the water table... so maybe this is a cistern rather than a well, but the road is called "Springvale" so it seems likely it is fed by an aquifer maybe? and digging down 12feet plus before hollowing out a chamber seems excessive...

So.

Any ideas what the pipe might be? Any well experts in the South Yorkshire region that anyone could recommend?

G.

 

[Anonymous]

I also had a similar looking well with a huge cavity about 13 feet down that turned out to be part of a late 18th century tunnel connected to the Shropshire Canal the western branch of which terminated at our property. I am not suggesting that yours is a canal tunnel obviously. If it was a cistern I would not expect it to be nearly as deep as yours. Just because you are on a hill does not mean that your water table has to be all that deep. Here is what I did.
1) Get a submersible pump and try pumping some water out so you can see what you have got. See how long it takes to refill.
2) Make a dip stick so that you can know the exact distance to the top of the water. Two roofing laths nailed together worked for me. Fill a butt full of water and pour it down. Do a calculation of volume of water and the increase in depth of the water to work out the surface area of the top of the water.
3) I called on the services of the Shropshire Caving and Mining Club who were only too happy to send a man down! There must be something similar in Yorkshire. They put me on their website.



http://www.serve.com/scmc/oldwynd.html

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that, very interesting.

The area we are in used to have small mines I think so it could be that the well diggers made use of one of these.

The fact it is 50feet deep and a minimum of 3feet in diameter suggests there are at least 20,000 litres of water down there before we allow for any kind of "cavern".

My worry with pumping it out myself is that the water migth be helping to support the roof. The well is only about 8 feet from the back wall of the house so if the "cavern" extends under the house it would be good to know about...

The other oddity is the "pipe"

 

[Anonymous]

A couple things I forgot to say
4) Try dropping a stone down and watch the ripples as they are reflected off the wall of the well. This will give an indication of the shape and size of the cavity.
5) Don’t fall down it! There was something on the news a couple days ago about a woman who fell 20 feet down a well. She scratched her arm!

We are in a mining area also. It was suggested to me that our tunnel could be part of a sough. (pronounced suff) which is a horizontal tunnel used to drain mines.
It is obviously easier to drain a mine sideways than it is to pump the water up and then out. A sough would not be anything like as wide as our tunnel.

The fact that you “pipe” is green would suggest to me that it is plastic and probably just something that dropped in quite recently. The well is obviously fairy old. Have you tried poking it to see if it moves. I suppose the green could be a mineral deposit. What were they mining!

 

[Anonymous]

Currently the water level is in the top parrallel part of the cavity so the ripples wont indicate anything until we drain it a bit.

The "pipe" looks to be a good 12-16 inches in diameter and looks to have a very smooth bulge like a joint in a lead pipe. It also seems to disappear out of sight to the left and right. Since it is about 4-6feet below the current water level and maybe 20 feet below ground level it would be pretty hard to "poke"

I think it was just coal they mined, but if it is "Fairy old" maybe it was pixie dust ;-)

Not falling down it is my top priority right now....

:

G.

 

[Anonymous]

>The well is obviously fairy old. Have you tried poking it to see if it moves.

Now don't go poking the fairies - they can cause all sorts of mischief.

 

[Anonymous]

How intriguing.

Unless the pipe is a bit of somthing that has fallen in and become jammed, then I'd think someone must have excavated a trench for drainage and knocked holes through the well, rather than go around it. Sight along the line of the pipe and see if there are any manholes downhill. Gas pipes are usually yellow, water is usually blue.

There used to be a system of fusion welding plastic pipes in which the ends of the pipes were heated by clamping on an electrically heated 'spade'. The thickening might be such a joint. I don't think it was used for drains, though.

Don't damage it until you know what it is. The water or gas companies might have records.

 

[Anonymous]

I cant see it being a modern pipe. It is a good 15-20 feet down, the trench would have been immense. The line it follows is across back gardens and would send it directly under several houses.

It looks like it has been there a long time and has a distinct greenish tinge... Since the well has been covered for a long time I doubt it is algae...

The area is littered with springs, so my best guess is that it was used to divert a water course while the hole was a mine and was simply left there when the hole became a well....

Lying in bed last night I couldnt help wandering what the hell is going on down there. Large parts of Sheffield seem to have these big voids under them. A school that was built recently had to have hundreds of tons of concrete poured into a void underneath it before they felt it safe to use for foundations. Bits of the town centre (including 10 storey plus buildings) are reputedly built over huge old mine workings...

I have to keep reminding myself that the house has been OK for 150 years which is a good sign but it does make me nervous about trying to reduce the water level...

G.

 

[Anonymous]

If it is modern & plastic, it would have to be a drain going against the contours of the land. I don't think any services would require a trench that deep.

If it's old, the green colour would suggest it's copper & I haven't a clue.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm no expert, just poking my nose in while passing!

It sounds like the mystery pipe could be metal, lead maybe as you say; can you scrape a sample or scratch it to test its composition?

Again, as someone mentioned earlier, a goodly length of lath with some imaginative tools lashed to it should help. However, there probably isn’t much of a choice in what type of material it could be because of the corrosion factor. Earthenware or lead I would have thought, but then the ‘seam’ could mean copper or possibly zinc. A cast-iron pipe would have more of a ‘collar’ than a ‘seam’ wouldn’t it? Perhaps you’ve discovered a rare bronze ‘spot-welded’ culvert!

Geological exploration companies’ drill horizontally as well as at other odd angles these days and some services, gas, electricity, etc., ‘thread’ pipes/cables through the ground without digging trenches!?

It’s the ‘bore’ of the thing that’s the real puzzle though, it seems an odd size, a lead ‘tube’ would collapse under pressure unless supported from inside – could someone have dumped something down there quite recently?

You’ll have to get someone like ‘Time Team’ in – you should be able to fit Phil Harding down into that hole (or lower Tony in head first!).

All just futile ranting I’m afraid, but this is an open forum . .

Bryan

 

[Anonymous]

I have nothing more than wild guessing to wrok with anyway so the more the merrier. I posted it up here as much to "share" the fun as in the hope of getting any definite answers.

I dont think it can have been dumped in that recently, the fact that it is not floating or sunk but at a depth of approx 6 feet means it would have to be a very specific density and it doesnt move when hit by my improvised lead plumb makes me think it is at least slightly wedged....

I am currently trawling through the deeds to see if I can find any clues...

G.

 

[Anonymous]

It might have floated when dropped in & later got wedged by a rise in the water level.

Like I said, I haven't the foggiest.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you thought of using a friend with a scuba diving kit, and a long piece of rope?

 

[Anonymous]

Well (no pun intended) I think it is all fascinating stuff, you are lucky to have such a remarkable feature in your garden, most of us have only got weeds and the odd plaster gnome!

Is the main lining stone or brick (or a mixture) and is it mortar bedded, clay bedded or dry laid?

Whatever it is (it could be a pot-clay mine), it looks like a pretty ancient structure from that photo and it deserves conserving.

Bryan

 

[Anonymous]

The parallel part appears to be stone, not much evidence of any mortar used, maybe a dollop of clay?

Dont worry we will conserve it as best we can. I assume it would be best "conserved" by ripping out the stone and re-lining with pre-cast concrete sections and fiting a UPVc reproduction "wishing well" style top? It goes without saying that we would of course fit an injected DPC.....

We should probably also make some enquiries with the neighbours, they seem to have some bizarre garden features that may be clues... The other House nearest the well has a strange set of steps leading down into a shallow hole in the ground (maybe 4 feet deep) on the other side of their garden (slightly uphill from the well) that look very old.... Too steep and "twee" for an entrance to a mine I would think, but maybe some other link....

G.

 

[Anonymous]

Thought of it... but it is going to take a hell of a lot to get me down there, the local caving society seems to be defunct, and the only scuba diver I know lives in California...

G.

 

[Anonymous]

Whereabouts are you, I have several Scuba diving friends, no idea if any of them would go down, but they do do some stupid things!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

I presume you've contacted the County Archaeologist?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, that's right, you’ve got the right idea about conservation, but you might have to go to a couple of night-school classes first, just to perfect a few minor details!

I would suggest it is quite an ancient well this, obviously pre B & Q and probably even pre-roman. Are your neighbours steps solid bedded or free laid in a similar stone, and do they seem to be set in the same pattern and manner as your well stones?

You could become the ‘Heritage Site’ of all Sheffield, ranking alongside world leaders like Disney Land, Stonehenge, Alton Towers and Bournemouth Gardens Crazy Golf Putting Green.

Bryan

 

[Anonymous]

>The other House nearest the well has a strange
> set of steps leading down into a shallow hole in
>the ground (maybe 4 feet deep)

Pump house.

If a pump was below the water level, you wouldn't need a foot-valve on the end of the suction pipe & the pump would be self-priming. The pipe might be the suction pipe, but it would have to go down into the well, presumably out of sight. You might be able to feel if it goes downwards with a long stick.