Wallpaper over Brand New Lime Plaster?

[cottagelover]

We are having our cottage renovated and the solid walls (1850s part of the cottage) are being lime plastered on the inside due to the dampness. The plasterer has offered to pigment the top coat, which we are going to do, so we won't need to decorate those rooms. However, in the downstairs cloakroom we had set our hearts on some fairly mad wallpaper, with the rest of the house just being pale grey.

The plasterer is a bit bemused as to why we would want to cover up his beautiful new plastered walls, but cannot give us any advice as to whether there is a breathable wallpaper paste that will still allow the walls to breathe.

I have looked through the forum but couldn't find an answer to this question - most people want to paper over old lime, not new.

Expert advice would be welcome.

 

[Abi Cott]

Most traditional wallpaper pastes are breathable, ready mixed ones generally aren't. Earthborn do a good one according to my research.

P.S. welcome to the forum

 

[88v8]

Hello and welcome.

You may know that new lime plaster needs to cure for about a month per inch of thickness before being painted or papered. That's a month after it's dry, dry being when you can't get your thumbnail into it.

Ochre is a much more traditional pigment. Grey was fashionable 2-3 years ago, although I believe it has a longer history in the navy
Battleship Cottage.

As to paste, as Abi said.

Ivor

 

[cottagelover]

That's really helpful and thank you for your welcomes.

Now that I have found you I am bound to be back to ask more questions

The lime plasterer is really good (https://www.heritage-plasterworks.co.uk) and we are under no illusions as to how long the plaster will take to dry - the scratch coat is going on now (perfect weather - not!) and we aren't expecting to decorate until mid April.

Many thanks

 

[noj]

Welcome!

Most traditional wallpaper pastes are breathable

- but many modern papers are not :wink: but I'm sure you know this!

If you're plastering to combat damp, the drying time of your lovely new finish may be extended as the walls dry out too. Traditionally you wait a year before adding the final decoration. Painfully slow, but worth it if your wallpaper stays stuck...

 

[MatthewC]

My brother owns a damp and cold property which had vinyl wallpaper literally hanging onto a lime plastered wall - anywhere you touched, it seemed to be loose, and the air in that room felt more damp and cold than the rest of the house. The funny thing was that when I educated him about lime, breathability, cement and dampness, he said "this is the room where my mother in law always stayed when she visited!" :shock: :lol: :lol:

 

[cottagelover]

I am so glad that I signed up - you guys are so helpful.

Our plasterer has now responded with the same paste that you recommended so that's a winner.

I have looked up the details of our chosen wallpaper to see how breathable it will be and it seems ok - "Our wallpaper is produced using PVC-free, eco-friendly materials and promises minimal environmental impact at every stage of production. Our wallpaper is made from wood pulp with added textile fibres to make it strong, dimensionally stable and easy to hang."

I understand but am very disappointed at the advice to wait a year... or should I just put my mother in law in the downstairs cloakroom?!

Regards

 

[malcolm]

I've been putting lining paper over my new lime plaster and mostly painting over it. Maybe the plaster had a month to dry - I work slowly. Sometime in the future someone will paint on some inappropriate plastic paint which will be impossible to remove without destroying the plaster underneath. My ex did that as a surprise in the spare bedroom and the paint won't come off.

Most of my lime plaster had lining paper from new and it has been possible to remove later coverings to get back to the original plaster. I've only needed to patch up a bit and put lining paper on again to protect the wall from the future.

Yeah - careful about the wallpaper you choose. No point having lime and then covering it with something that isn't breathable. Also put some lining paper behind.

 

[Abi Cott]

The longer you wait the better is definitely the rule. I won't be waiting a year. I'm fed up of having my bed in the living room.
Theoretically if you're using breathable paste and breathable paper the plaster can finish it's final drying whilst covered, though admittedly at a much slower rate.
It might cause a couple of issues for long term adhesion, but frankly I can live with that easier than I can live with having my bed in the living room and my sofas in the kitchen.
You pays your money and you takes your chance.

 

[Flyfisher]

I understand but am very disappointed at the advice to wait a year...

I wonder how many people living in our houses 100, 200, 300 years ago would have had the patience to wait a year when redecorating?

The urge to finish things quickly is surely not just a modern thing, so how did previous generations deal with such issues? I'd be willing to bet that they'd give new lime plaster just a week or so before ploughing on with the painting or wallpapering!

 

[Abi Cott]

I understand but am very disappointed at the advice to wait a year...

I wonder how many people living in our houses 100, 200, 300 years ago would have had the patience to wait a year when redecorating?

The urge to finish things quickly is surely not just a modern thing, so how did previous generations deal with such issues? I'd be willing to bet that they'd give new lime plaster just a week or so before ploughing on with the painting or wallpapering!

I think the key is using the right paste and paper. Back then they wouldn't have had access to vinyls. I'm pretty sure mildly damp lime plaster would happily blow moisture resistant paper off the wall without a care in the world, but I agree, I don't think they would have bothered in the past, and I don't think their paper was peeling at an accelerated rate, so to my mind it must be something about the materials and techniques.

 

[Flyfisher]

I think the key is using the right paste and paper.

Agreed. No point covering a breathable wall with vinyl paper or vinyl emulsion, but as you rightly say, such materials were not available in the 'good old days' so they couldn't make such mistakes. They would just have got on with the job as fast as they could and it would probably have been fine because of the available materials. So all this talk of leaving newly plastered walls for a year before decorating seems a little odd. Once again, it's the inappropriate mixing of old and new materials that is usually the root of any problems.

 

[88v8]

Yes, what was paste made of? I remember my parents making their own paste.

One thing I forgot, haven't done any papering for a few years as we have no paperable walls here.
Umm, size.
I always used to size the walls. so much easier to paper, the paper slides into place so obligingly when pattern matching.
But size is not breathable at all.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, size. I've never been sure what it's actually made of but I know it's supposed to act as a barrier between the plaster and the wallpaper, so I guess brethability is not a key characteristic. According to this article, a wall can be 'sized' with a 50:50 mix of water & PVA - so there goes any breathability!
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/mar/01/diy.homes21

OK, the decorators of olde would not have had PVA but what did they use instead? And was it breathable?

I wonder if there are any old books (pre 20th century) that describe the decorating practices and materials of the day? I've tried a few searches but could only find modern books about period styles rather than an actual period book describing the (then) state of the art.

 

[malcolm]

I had assumed sizing was just pasting some thinned down wallpaper paste on the wall. PVA is a modern invention - houses operated much better before it was invented.

I've been using cold water paste (the Lap stuff). Bung a bit all round the wall first and let it dry or don't bother, but be careful not to brush loose sandy stuff around as that leads to little bumps. Use the same on the back of the paper, fold it and let it sit for 10 minutes then unfold, apply to the wall and enjoy the wonderful adjustment time you get. Internet has instructions.

I had a little look at modern wallpapers and they seem to put plastic in everything these days. Even lining paper is not always paper. A point of care to select something wallpaper that is breathable without plastics. For non breathable coatings the visible trouble is the coating bubbles off the wall unless water is controlled by some other means like a cavity. Less obvious is a wall full enough of water to push coatings off is poor for insulation.

 

[cottagelover]

Told you I would be back!

What about tiling over new lime plaster? One of the bathrooms has solid walls so we we would to tile it. Just a question of waiting or is there something else?!!

Thanks in advance

 

[philpjuk100]

Wallpaper paste,I have had some work done, increasing and lowering the aperture for my log burner and fitting a new liner,this damaged the plaster which was covered with embossed wallpaper which was painted. The builder made good the plaster with gypsum as this is an internal wall and seems to be in gypsum anyway. I managed to buy some paper of the same pattern from eBay but had no paste (I normally use "lap" type paste) and unable to get to the DIY shop found some in a "pound shop" so bought a couple of packs, this stuff was great! it did not require the lumps beating out, it seems to have plenty of "body" and allowed "slip" for pattern matching, After repapering and "tearing" the join to the original paper after a couple of coats of paint it looks fine. I could not face stripping and repapering the wall but repainted the whole room,

 

[88v8]

What about tiling over new lime plaster? One of the bathrooms has solid walls so we we would to tile it. Just a question of waiting or is there something else?!!

Better really not to muddle someone else's thread..... but as you're here... the Romans were quite big on tiling, then there was a long hiatus, when tiles came back in a big way in the Victorian ere they were put up with cement.
Modern tile adhesive is not breathable, nor is cement.
I've never heard of wall tiles being put up with lime mortar, I suppose they could be.
And especially, grouted with lime and stone dust.
Otherwise you'll shut down the breathability of the wall which was the whole point of lime plastering in the first place...........

Ivor

 

[88v8]

...."tearing" the join to the original paper ...

This is a very good way of blending a join. It can succeed even on non-painted papers. So long as they are paper, not vinyl.

I recall that wallpaper used to be supplied with the edges untrimmed.
My parents had a 5ft steel ruler - now unobtainum, but I still have it - which they used with a Stanley knife to trim down one edge.

The first drop went up untrimmed, then the second drop was put up with the trimmed edge overlapping the untrimmed edge of the first piece.
There was no question of butting the joins. Although it did make an overlap of course, and one had to be careful to make the overlap away from the light so it didn't show.

Ivor

 

[cottagelover]

[

Better really not to muddle someone else's thread..... but as you're here... the Romans were quite big on tiling, then there was a long hiatus, when tiles came back in a big way in the Victorian ere they were put up with cement. ...

Ivor

Thanks Ivor - useful comments but, jsut for the record, it was my thread to start with