upvc sash windows becoming more common?

[TheRoost]

Just wondered what peoples thoughts are on plastic sashes in general from an appearance point of view?

Where we live they seem to be coming more commonplace, i.e beforehand you would only see standard ugly hinged opening upvc windows being fitted to old houses - now for example a couple of Victorian terraces near us were bought last year, both owners pretty much straight away had white 1 over 1 upvc sliding sashes fitted - both look identical in style. Then, an NHS building nearby (that is from the 1960/1970's) had its very slim modern metal sliding windows replaced with .... exactly the same 1 over 1 Victorian style white plastic sash windows! it does look a bit bizarre.

I'm wondering if they have become cheaper now and are featuring in the catalogues of SafeStyle and other mainstream window fitters?

Sorry for the ramble, i'm undecided on whether its a good thing or not (for other peoples houses I mean) - yes they look more period, but theres no craftsmanship, they all seem to look the same (mass manufactured) and probably won't match visually what was originally there, but then again they look better than some of the downright ugly upvc that has been fitted over the last 20 odd years.

Is anybody else noticing this, what do you think?

End of ramble!

 

[plasticpigeon]

My opinion is that that they are far superior to the horrid stormproof casements. However they usually have very thick frames, and I have seen them mounted on the face of the brickwork rather than in the recess a 1/2 brick back from the face which looks wrong. The devil is in the detail. I have often wondered about trying to design a pvc sash window with only 1 opening sash, designed to look good but be as cheap as the cheapest casement. It would provide a real alternative to those just wanting cheap double glazing. I have not got round to doing it as I'm tyoo busy messing about doing things in a traditioonal manner on my house.

 

[mims&pip]

Hi Roost

Our previous house was in a village on the Wiltshire/Dorset border (we were on the Wilts side) and many of the properties in the surrounding area had recently been fitted with white UPVC sash windows. They looked pretty awful imho

This was an area of predominantly stone built, thatched cottages/houses, yet on the whole these were not listed buildings - although it was an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty - so the owners were able to get away with it.

Our own house was a relatively large building with ashlar stone frontage and thatched roof (as opposed to many of our neighbours' cottages which were of rubble stone and slate roofs), dating from the early 1800s and when we bought it as an unmortgageable wreck in 2011, the windows were in need of replacement, having been neglected for very many years. They were timber sashes with a mix of Georgian and Victorian glazing bars that previous owners had replaced randomly over the years.

When we were ready to replace the seven windows on the two lower floors of the front elevation (the attic windows and those at the rear/sides were in far better condition and only required repairing), we didn't even stop to consider UPVC, although our closest neighbour had recently had UPVC sashes fitted to their tiny cottage, but instead obtained quotes for timber replacements. We did however opt for acoustic double glazing as we fronted onto a busy road and as we were about to sell we wanted to avoid secondary glazing which was not the norm in the village (and Pip thinks it is ugly, lol :roll: )......

A local joinery company made ours and we were very pleased with the result - although there was an issue over FENSA certificates when we sold a few months later - especially the fact that (unlike the majority of our neighbours) our windows were an interesting colour (F&B Green Smoke) which set our house apart from all the unadventurous sheep who cannot see beyond white :lol:

Mims x

 

[MatthewC]

I just cannot see uPVC as having any longevity: whilst doing this place in 2010/11, we lived in a 10 year old new build which had the most awful uPVC windows, with draughts everywhere. It just isn't designed to last (like so much in the modern world). I am in the throes of refurbishing a large sash window at the front of my house (that's why it's raining ). It had been re-painted a few times and there's a bit of rot in the bottom corners but otherwise it has survived 150 years in quite good nick. When I finish I hope it will do a good few years more.

Matthew

 

[88v8]

Indeed they are not nearly so objectionable as were former designs.
Still ugly, though, compared to originals. Other than their clumsy scantlings, my objection is, first, that they are always white; I suppose it's too much to expect the lazies who install them to get busy with a pot of paint. After all, unlike wood, they can be painted two-tone, even dark colours, with no fear of thermal gain*
And secondly the loss of lovely original glass, although in fact there's very little of that left now.

Ivor

*when we were in Portugal and Madeira, I recall that most of the plastic windows were actually made two-tone, most green and white, a few dark red and white, but I have not been able to find any intelligible information on sources.

 

[Owain]

They've always been common; they are now more prevalent.

 

[88v8]

Aha!!

http://www.rehauhome.com/uPVC-windows/uPVC-Coloured-Windows

 

[TheRoost]

Plasticpigeon, yes that's another of my pet hates, upvc casements that have been mounted on the face of the brickwork, they seem to do that 95% of the time, and surely it must involve more work with replastering/new window sill etc? looks awful on an old house.

Mims, yes the colour is a good point, the white plastic soon fades and looks grey as it absorbs dirt and pollution. Some friends of ours recently bought a upvc conservatory -they had the option of a nice period soft green colour upvc which they loved, but it added thousands to the price, so they ended up with white.

I saw a company that repaired 'misted up' double glazing, what they seemed to be doing was fitting new glass into old upvc frames, surely they will just mist up again?

The only bit of old glass we have is the leaded lights in the front door. I've seen new wobbly plate glass that doesn't seem too expensive, I wonder if you can make double glazed units out of it?

 

[Keithj]

Trouble with double glazing if it's not "sealed" is that it mists up.

I've been amazed at how much moisture gets between our hall window and the secondary glazing inside it. I have a bag of desiccant in there: it gains about a kilogramme in weight over four months in the winter. It's in a Nomex bag (my patent, as it were) so comes out for weighing and microwaving every so often (when the window starts to mist up).

Whether the moisture is being drawn round the gaps by expansion and contraction, or working through the timber of the frame I know not.

As for UPVC: our CO has a one-word answer and it's not positive.

 

[kreyszig]

I saw a company that repaired 'misted up' double glazing, what they seemed to be doing was fitting new glass into old upvc frames, surely they will just mist up again?

they were probably replacing the sealed glazing units. The misting up happens when those seals deteriorate, to stop the misting you need to reseal or replace the sealed unit. The frame/glazing unit interface seal isn't the problem, as far as I'm aware.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I believe that the "sealed" units also contain a dessicant in the dividing strip to deal with any moisture from a small air leak. When this is saturated it mists up. Shame as the unit will still insulate as well but it won't perform its primary function of being a window!

 

[Flyfisher]

DG units seem very variable in my limited experience.

One room in our house has a very large single DG window that was installed in the 60s sometime (about 5x4 feet or so - totally inappropriate but before it was listed, ho hum) that is still totally mist-free, whereas an only slightly smaller DG unit of similar vintage in a bathroom window has 'blown' and is full of condensation.

Our previous 1950s house had a late 80s DG conservatory in which almost every roof unit was 'blown' and full of condensation, whereas the few other DG units in various windows were perfectly fine and remained so in the 20 years we lived there.

It all seems be be down to the luck of the draw, which is a bit disconcerting really.

 

[Carol]

I have recently committed the awful sin of installing UPVC windows in this 1883 farm cottage and have felt hugely guilty! The difference in sound and heat insulation is astonishing and has mitigated slightly my embarrassment, but the cost of timber ones was so much more. Would have preferred to do one at a time in wood, but was out voted!

 

[TheRoost]

I saw a company that repaired 'misted up' double glazing, what they seemed to be doing was fitting new glass into old upvc frames, surely they will just mist up again?

they were probably replacing the sealed glazing units. The misting up happens when those seals deteriorate, to stop the misting you need to reseal or replace the sealed unit. The frame/glazing unit interface seal isn't the problem, as far as I'm aware.

Yes, I was just thinking that an old warped frame might not keep the weather away from the glazing unit seal, which might make the glazing seal deteriorate more quickly.

 

[plasticpigeon]

The frames arent really sealed, at least not to the extent of keeping water out. The double glazed units sit on spacers, and there is an air gap/drainage channel all the way around the perimeter of the doulble glazed unit. There should be drain holes in the bottom of the opening light and main frame to let any water that gets in, to get back out again, a bit like a car door which allows water to drai right through, but will rot if the drainage holes get clogged. The reason the units sit on spacer within the frame is so that if water gets into the frame, the seal on the double glazed unit doesn't sit in water.

 

[garnett]

If you are going to use these sliding sash PVCu windows, it is vital that you take out the sash weights and loose the frame into the sash boxes. Some window companies don't do this and they look really strange and chunky with a large plastic rectangle around the outside!

Garnett

 

[discobarry]

Who was the guy in Lincolnshire who made incredible wooden windows? I forget his name.

 

[Flyfisher]

Biff Vernon?

 

[discobarry]

Yes! thanks, i couldn't find his website but found it now.

 

[foppish]

I had no idea that uPVC could be painted. The likelihood of me being able to afford to replace the uPVC windows with timber framed is very very slim (there's a long list of more urgent work), but if I could make them less glaring that would be great. The plastic front door has gone though, I hated that enough to put it high on the list. I'll get round to replacing the other 2 plastic doors as and when.