To shore up or not?

[skier-hughes]

I have this small triangular section of brick infill in the loft that is very loose.
I doubt it is going to fall down as we don't use the loft.
It has remained in place with all the work we have done to the beams and ceiling right next to it.

This infill would have been the outside wall of the original house, but is now inside the whole house, so not open to any elements.

Does it serve any structural purpose? IE, if it comes out, will it be more likely the woodwork will fail?

Should I just be careful and put a wooden, maybe triangular, brace across it now, to stop any likelyhood of it failling out? The wooden A frame is in pretty good condition. The bricks are all in one piece and would only fall out in one lot.

Graham

 

[Flyfisher]

It's a little difficult to see the exact structure because of the floor (I presume) but it looks, to my amateur eyes, to be exactly what you describe it as - an infill. I'd say the structural strength is all in the beams. I'd also guess that it would take some significant force to 'push' out the bricks, even if they are a bit loose within the triangle formed by the beams (beam shrinkage over many years leading to a loosening of the brickwork?). I'd probably just leave them as they are.

However, if you're really worried then, as you don't use the roof space (i.e. it's not on show), I would think a couple of lengths of 2x1-inch battens nailed across the beams would prevent the bricks falling out.

What's on the other side of the wall? Could the bricks fall out that side? In which case another couple of 2x1 battens should secure them.

 

[skier-hughes]

They are slightly leaning to this side, don't think they will go the other way.
I suppose not going up there much when work is finished, I think if it did fall it'd ruin the new ceiling and I won't check on it's "progress" in falling down much!!!

 

[Jon Maine]

Unless the gaps have opened significantly, as long as it is acting as one panel it should be fine.

The lower inside edge from where it would hinge would remain a fixed point, the diagonal through the brickwork from there to the top of the triangle on the other side of the wall would be longer then the simple vertical to the point of the triangle on the same side.

This in itself should stop it from falling out as it would wedge itself the further it leans.

Of course if it worries you squidge a bit of mastic or something in the joint at the top. This will firm it up only need a fairly small dot. perhaps the wrong material I hear you say, or at least some of you but would mean a simple invisible repair can happen without losing more origional fabric so a worthy compromise.

 

[Penners]

I completely agree.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Isn't this exactly the point at which an experienced structural engineer would be able to help?
Where is he?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Rather than a spot of mastic (which is a good idea Jon), could you not rake out the pointing at the top and right hand edges, and repoint?

If it is as stable as you suggest, then this will probably see it for another couple of hndred years or so.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Isn't this exactly the point at which an experienced structural engineer would be able to help?
Where is he?

Seems we scared him off? :wink:

 

[Jon Maine]

Are we scary? :shock:

 

[biffvernon]

Just a passing troll. Pity he did such damage.

I'd take the bricks out, Graham. (But upon your head be it.)

 

[Jon Maine]

Choices, oh such choices. Time to roll a dice? :lol:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Choices, oh such choices. Time to roll a dice? :lol:

Some dice, or a die?

Mr P.Edant. :roll:

 

[Lime]

I can't say this would worry me but I certainly would not put a brace across it if it did.
A brace so obvious would be a beacon to the "experienced structural engineer" sticking his head in your loft looking for faults as proof that your house is about to completely fall down.
If you insist on supporting the bricks do so in as a surreptitious a way as possible.

 

[Jon Maine]

Choices, oh such choices. Time to roll a dice? :lol:

Some dice, or a die?

Mr P.Edant. :roll:

I know I should have suggested a coin and to become a tosser :twisted:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I'd leave it alone. I spent this afternoon looking at daylight through various cracks in a house that a couple have been living in quite happliy for 15 years - the only reason they're concerned now is because they started stripping off some 1950s wall coverings with a view to sorting out their springy bedroom floors, found a timber frame, then said "oh! is that daylight I can see?" As with restaurants, better not to look too closely at what happens beyond the punters' line of sight.
As our no-longer-resident "expert" engineer would point out, it's a bit more complex than that, but it's nothing compared to my discovery that my roofspace interconnected with the rest of the street.

 

[Jon Maine]

yEs but no but,

I agree best left alone, it isn't outside the middle third by a long way so no problem.

Back to this thing about engineers. I employed 3 on my project.

The first honestly as I realised in retrospect could not tell the difference between her arse and her elbow. :?

The second, who at the time was sitting on the board of the engineers overseeing body made serious mis judgements. :? :?

The third Professor Bill Harvey I take my hat off to, as far as I am concerned the best. I had to name 5 people when awarded The Stansell Award. Bill was a must. :lol: :wink:

Whilst I have not employed him I also have a lot of faith in Patrick Stowe too. Another very pragmatic sensible man.:lol: :wink:

Pot luck anyone for a good engineer :?: :?: :?:

My experience with historic property and structural engineers 1/3 sucess

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm going to monitor it while we finish the work, then when it's warmed slightly I'll try a bit of lime mortar.
Thanks.

 

[Penners]

Mr P.Edant.

Oi! An imposter!

(Mind you, I like your style...)

 

[FamilyWiggs]

One has to try and maintain standards, Penners.

Particulalry on this day of unbridled Obamania. You know, if I'd been there I'd have stopped proceedings until he got the oath right. I mean, it's not like he hasn't been practicing it! :roll:

Now, is that the most tenuous way of getting Obama menioned on PPUK today? :wink:

 

[Penners]

I'd have stopped proceedings until he got the oath right. I mean, it's not like he hasn't been practicing it!

He should've had a few lessons from me. I'm well known for my oaths.