To list or not to list?

[Anys]

Our old farmhouse dating back to the 17th century is unlisted. It is really hidden away and secluded. A Planning Officer once said it should be listed, maybe it was overlooked. If we did apply to list it, and we were successful, then it might not be so easy to sell as buyers would not have a free hand. It may have to be sold one of these days. But we don't like the idea of others 'tarting it up', gutting it or ripping out old features when we are gone. It is in an A.O.N.B. and conservation area, with lovely views. That should protect it to some extent.

We could try to find a buyer who would treat it with TLC of course, as we have, but what of the future? Any views?

 

[MdB]

Speak to your local estate agent and ask them what effect listing will have. I read somewhere that getting a listing adds 5%(???) to the value of the property though I can also see it would also make it harder to sell.

 

[Nemesis]

Listing depends on many things, and it may have been asessed in the past and not kisted.

A bit out of date but still worth reading:

Advice on listing

For advice on how to get a building listed, or on listing in general, contact The Department of Culture, Media and Sport, 2-4 Cockspur Street, London SWI Y SDH.


The following archive document has been placed on the World Wide Web as a service for the community by Pavilions of Splendour, who cannot be held responsible for its content or for any errors or omissions. Although much of the infomation given here remains relevant to listed buildings in the ealry 21st century, this is not current legislation, and advice should be sought from your local Planning Officer.

The document was published in 1990 by:

The Department of National Heritage (Listing Branch),
Room C9/15,
2 Marsham Street,
London, SWIP 3EB.
Department of the Environment
The latest version is available from the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.

An Historic Guide to the Legislation
concerning the Listing of Historic Buildings in England
1. LISTING
1.1 The Secretary of State for the Environment is required to compile lists of buildings of special architectural or historic interest, for the guidance of local planning authorities in the exercise of their own planning functions under the Town and Country Planning Act 1971.
1.2 'Building preservation orders' were introduced by the Town and Country Planning Act 1932, but the first historic buildings survey of England was carried out in the 1950s and 1960s, as a result of which statutory lists were provided for all local authority areas. With the revision, in 1970, of the criteria for selecting buildings for listing, a resurvey was begun so that the lists could be updated. The resurvey of the whole country is nearing completion.

How the Buildings are Chosen
1.3 The principles of selection for the lists were drawn up by the Historic Buildings Council (the functions of the former Historic Buildings Council for England are now carried out by the Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission (HBMC)) and approved by the Secretary of State. They cover five groups:All buildings built before 1700 which survive in anything like their original condition are listed. Most buildings of 1700 to 1840 are listed, though selection is necessary. Between 1840 and 1914 only buildings of definite quality and character are listed, and the selection is designed to include the principal works of the principal architects. Between 1914 and 1939, selected buildings of high quality are listed. A few outstanding buildings erected after 1939.
1.4 In choosing buildings, particular attention is paid to: Special value within certain types, either for architectural or planning reasons or as illustrating social and economic history (for instance, industrial buildings, railway stations, schools, hospitals, theatres, town halls, markets, exchanges, almshouses, prisons, lock-ups, mills). Technological innovation or virtuosity (for instance cast iron, prefabrication, or the early use of concrete). Association with well-known characters or events. Group value, especially as examples of town planning (for instance, squares, terraces or model villages).
1.5 A total of over 435,000 buildings in England had been included in the lists by December 1989.
1.6 The buildings are classified in grades to show their relative importance as follows:-

Grade I (Grade One): These are buildings of exceptional interest (only about 2 per cent of listed buildings so far are in this grade).

Grade II* (Grade Two Star): These are particularly important buildings of more than special interest (some 4 per cent of listed buildings).

Grade II (Grade Two): These are buildings of special interest, which warrant every effort being made to preserve them.

 

[Moreteyne]

Don't get it listed , it will hinder you no end when it comes to repairs. Just enjoy what you have.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Don't get it listed , it will hinder you no end when it comes to repairs. Just enjoy what you have.

Get it listed, it may help you to obtain grant aid when it comes to repairs.

And, when it comes to repairs, consent is not required.

 

[Nemesis]

It's not so simple of course - it may not be conisidered of listable quality.

But if so, I agree with Gareth. AONB and Conservation Area status is not much protection really.

 

[Anys]

Local estate agents have told us any house in this area would be easier to sell unlisted as buyers prefer it ... as they can then do more or less what they like with it. But thank you for all the welcome advice which will be given much thought.

 

[Nemesis]

Or an estate agent finds them easier to flog unlisted! Try asking one which specialises in period and upmarket buildings.

Of course most people are Philistines. Look at how many are fitting uPVC windows and doors to period buildings.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Local estate agents have told us any house in this area would be easier to sell unlisted as buyers prefer it ... as they can then do more or less what they like with it. But thank you for all the welcome advice which will be given much thought.

Depends if what bothers you is how easy it will be to sell, or how much you'll get for it. Most studies suggest 5% or so extra for listed.

 

[Moo]

It's probably true that an awful lot of people are put off by a listing because of all the limitations it imposes. But there is still a large number willing to pay a bit over the odds because of the listing.

It all depends which sort you want to take over the responsibility for your house, I suppose.

 

[Flyfisher]

Get it listed, it may help you to obtain grant aid when it comes to repairs.

Does anyone know of anyone who has successfully received a grant for repairs of a listed property? All the tentative discussions I've had suggest that such grants are reserved for grade I properties and even our GII* wouldn't be treated favourably, but even if it was the grant would be capped at £5,000. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but £5k isn't that helpful when looking at a six-figure project.

The other thing I really can't understand is that repairs attract no tax breaks whereas alterations do. What is the rationale for that?

And, when it comes to repairs, consent is not required.

True, but I suspect it is always wise to inform the relevant CO of theintended works, just in case their idea of repairs is different to your own.

 

[BMcD]

Nemesis wrote:

Or an estate agent finds them easier to flog unlisted!

Too true! In my experience estate agents are lazy sods.

As Gareth Hughes suggested it comes down to preserving the property you love over a quick sale.

 

[Moreteyne]

When it comes to listed buildings in the UK it would be interesting to see the stats on grants obtained to listed buildings in need. I know from bitter experience that it is harder to find a hen with teeth than to obtain a grant for grade II listed work.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Does anyone know of anyone who has successfully received a grant for repairs of a listed property? I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but £5k isn't that helpful when looking at a six-figure project.

I've got about a dozen on the go at the moment. I wish we had a budget that would let us be more generous that 5K but even that can be more than a drop in the ocean for a lot of people. Not all repairs are six-figure projects.

The other thing I really can't understand is that repairs attract no tax breaks whereas alterations do. What is the rationale for that?

There we can agree. There is no rationale to it that works in the interests of conservation.

And, when it comes to repairs, consent is not required.

True, but I suspect it is always wise to inform the relevant CO of theintended works, just in case their idea of repairs is different to your own.

Absolutely

 

[Flyfisher]

Does anyone know of anyone who has successfully received a grant for repairs of a listed property? I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but £5k isn't that helpful when looking at a six-figure project.

I've got about a dozen on the go at the moment.

Maybe I'm talking to the wrong people. May I ask what is the breakdown of your projects across the three grades? Also, how long, typically, does it take to obtain such grants?

 

[Anys]

my experience with grant applications on listed buildings was that they only lead to heartache and refusals. We're thinking of keeping the old house more or less as it was, as it has been over a hundred years or so, except we've put in a bathroom with loo in the old dairy now. The Planning Officer we spoke to wore two hats, he was also the Conservation Officer. We have queen posts, a stone staircase, an enormous half-moon granite inglenook, various beams and two windows, now blind, that overlooked cattle in the barn. Think originally it was a one-up, one-down, and cooking went on in the inglenook, judging by the amount of soot on the granite above, third fireplace we came to. Signs of where a ladder was to go to bed, rather like that little Welsh NT house (something Mawr?) I've forgotten the name of.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Does anyone know of anyone who has successfully received a grant for repairs of a listed property? I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but £5k isn't that helpful when looking at a six-figure project.

I've got about a dozen on the go at the moment.

Maybe I'm talking to the wrong people. May I ask what is the breakdown of your projects across the three grades? Also, how long, typically, does it take to obtain such grants?

Actually the figure is 16 (three are part of an English Heretics - funded scheme in one location). Of the other 13, two are unlisted buildings (both prominent garden walls) in conservation areas, grant-aided at 50%, the rest are all Grade II (25% in CAs, 20% elsewhere, up to maximum 5k). We don't grant aid churches in use.

Depending when you submit an application (start of the financial year is best), and assuming all the paperwork is properly filled in (which I agree can be a pain), we aim to make a decision on whether or not to grant aid within 6 weeks.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks for that info. Very interesting. Since we're coming up to the start of a new financial year, where can I get an application form?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Thanks for that info. Very interesting. Since we're coming up to the start of a new financial year, where can I get an application form?

Well, if you live in my district, they're on the council's website under "Conservation". Other local authorities may have different systems, of course (or no grant policy at all, in which case, why not pester them to start one?).

 

[Flyfisher]

OK, thanks.