Ah Ha! That sounds good ,mostly because i may want Bulmers to make me a few bricks for my fireplace to replace some nasty commons that someone decided to use where the original tudor bricks had collapsed (the tudors were then buried up the end of the garden). Ive been thinking they might also be able to make me up some floor bricks, might actually work out cheaper than using pamments.
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Gareth Hughes
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Just to whet appetites:
Penners
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I had some bespoke bricks made by BB&T many years ago. Excellent work.robgil said:
You certainly shouldn't miss any opportunity to look around the place and watch them at work. It's like travelling several hundred years back in time - absolutely fascinating. And Peter Minter is a wonderful character.
biffvernon
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robgil said:
Trained as? Or just became?
The people I have in mind are a father approaching retirement and his son and daughter who are taking over the trade. He's been doing is for 45 years and I doubt there's a better oak framer in the land.
I think a good way into the trade is to start with a self build project in your own backgarden - build yourself a summer house/conservatory/garage/shed/gazeebo/swimmingpool roof or whatever. Buy a load of timber, tools, books, look at online resources and work hard for a summer's worth of daylight hours. By next year, if you've the aptitude as Midi says, you will be a timber framer. If you haven't the aptitude, well, take up cake decorating or accountancy or something else.
Penners
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Or selling firewood! :wink:biffvernon said:
Oh come on now guys , surely there is more to it than that?
Customer wanting a 200k oak framed house built ''so what experience or qualifications do you have''?
Me , a year from now ''well i built a gazeebo in my garden during the summer and i have read quite a few books on the subject''.
I think I might need to approach a few timber framing company's and ask them if they need a labourer who would be willing to learn the ropes.I do hear what you are saying though Biff and perhaps a project will give me the foot in the door,and i do need a car port down the end of the garden.
Customer wanting a 200k oak framed house built ''so what experience or qualifications do you have''?
Me , a year from now ''well i built a gazeebo in my garden during the summer and i have read quite a few books on the subject''.
I think I might need to approach a few timber framing company's and ask them if they need a labourer who would be willing to learn the ropes.I do hear what you are saying though Biff and perhaps a project will give me the foot in the door,and i do need a car port down the end of the garden.
JoceAndChris
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Rob, I think it's lovely you want to get involved with heritage craftsmanship, and I'm inclined to agree with your last point. We all agreed in the " finding a good lime plasterer" thread on how picky we'd be, in an ideal world, over choice of tradesman, and ideally want a website recording excellent past work.
Can I ask why it appeals to you more than plumbing? Surely plumbing is all year round work, whereas timber framing is dependent on dry weather? So a summer time thing?
I'm not trying to put you off as we all need changes and to do something that's interesting but plumbing is a perfectly good career, and maybe could be more interesting for you if you targeted yourself towards period properties?
I think it's really excellent if tradesmen have more than one string to their bows and could say for example "oh, by the way, I do timber framing as well"
But good luck with whatever you decide.
Can I ask why it appeals to you more than plumbing? Surely plumbing is all year round work, whereas timber framing is dependent on dry weather? So a summer time thing?
I'm not trying to put you off as we all need changes and to do something that's interesting but plumbing is a perfectly good career, and maybe could be more interesting for you if you targeted yourself towards period properties?
I think it's really excellent if tradesmen have more than one string to their bows and could say for example "oh, by the way, I do timber framing as well"
But good luck with whatever you decide.
Flyfisher
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I understand your point Rob but, for better or worse, times have changed. Today, anyone wanting to build an oak-framed house will not be looking for a craftsperson who can craft such a thing on site from a few rough sketches and a pile of freshly cut oak. They will go to a specialist company that will design the frame in minute detail using a CAD system. When the design is approved by the customer the CAD files will be used to control CNC machines that will cut the oak to precise size, including all the necessary joints, and the "kit" of parts will be delivered to site on a large lorry where it will be slotted and pegged together on the previously prepared plinth.robgil said:
I would guess that it would be far easier to make a good living from 'period plumbing' as Joce suggested. Our house is a veritable jungle of plumbing, from 3-inch iron pipes for an old heating system to modern copper and gas. Not to mention all the new innovations being introduced for 'alternative' energy systems.
During the time we lived in Hertfordshire we moved through various houses (nothing period alas) and we found the most marvellous plumber who we used over a period of about 20 years. He was a real 'old school' lovely man who only retired about five years ago and his last job for us was when he was almost 80 years of age. Anyway, he had looked after all the plumbing at Knebworth house for decades. As he used to say, over all those years he had made so many repairs, changes and additions that he was the only one who really understood the plumbing there.
iockus
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I think you have hit the nail on the head in that you should approach a few framers who are experienced in the work and especially as you don't say whether you want to work on new build rather than conservation work (where the skills would be a little more demanding). I think you are not wrong in also seeing the 'career path' of carpentry first then framing and a route would be NVQ3 - heritage skills bursary. Look at the National Heritage Training Group's website http://www.nhtg.org.uk/ But you will still have to attach yourself to a craftsman to progress.
The short courses, and the Weald and Downland Museum specialize in Timber Framing and even longer courses than a day or two, are designed for builders, professionals and interested owners and are very popular. They can greatly improve knowledge of the craft but they will not make a craftsmen out of you in such a short time.
It is not a solo career as timber framing is a team effort so is that what you want?
It may be thought that 'thousands' could work on historic buildings but this is not the case apart from basic stuff sadly - I am looking at the moment at the failure of lime pointing in a number of churches and other buildings in Wales where it looks like both the architect and the tradesman are at fault.
Flyfisher - Apart from the most rudimentary work timber framing has usually been done in a yard - since medieval times -and re-assembled on site (hence the marks).
The short courses, and the Weald and Downland Museum specialize in Timber Framing and even longer courses than a day or two, are designed for builders, professionals and interested owners and are very popular. They can greatly improve knowledge of the craft but they will not make a craftsmen out of you in such a short time.
It is not a solo career as timber framing is a team effort so is that what you want?
It may be thought that 'thousands' could work on historic buildings but this is not the case apart from basic stuff sadly - I am looking at the moment at the failure of lime pointing in a number of churches and other buildings in Wales where it looks like both the architect and the tradesman are at fault.
Flyfisher - Apart from the most rudimentary work timber framing has usually been done in a yard - since medieval times -and re-assembled on site (hence the marks).
Penners
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Hello iockus - I don't think we've heard from you before. Welcome to the forum.
Would I be wide of the mark to infer from your post above that you are involved in the period property field professionally in some way?
Would I be wide of the mark to infer from your post above that you are involved in the period property field professionally in some way?
iockus
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Hello Penners, Yes, it's true. I don't know how I stumbled on this site but I couldn't resist diving in. I am based in Wales but love the variety of vernacular buildings. I have spent some time in Suffolk, Essex,& Cambs and it seems particularly well catered for, especially timber framing.
Am i supposed to introduce myself in some way?
Am i supposed to introduce myself in some way?
Flyfisher
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Hello iockus and welcome to the forum.
I don't think we have a "Introductions" thread - perhaps it would be a good idea. We've had a number of new members start posting recently and it's always interesting and helpful to know a little bit about people. It's easy to assume that new members are fairly new to the subject and looking for information and advice but of course it's just as likely that a new member could be an expert in a particular field of property conservation and it's always helpful to know when to doff our hats. :wink:
Just one bit of 'housekeeping' - it would be helpful to include your approximate location in your profile as this can be useful when people ask about local suppliers etc. Otherwise, just jump in!
Oh yes, I nearly forgot - we also love to see photos of period properties and features, so don't hold back if you feel the urge to post anything. :wink:
I don't think we have a "Introductions" thread - perhaps it would be a good idea. We've had a number of new members start posting recently and it's always interesting and helpful to know a little bit about people. It's easy to assume that new members are fairly new to the subject and looking for information and advice but of course it's just as likely that a new member could be an expert in a particular field of property conservation and it's always helpful to know when to doff our hats. :wink:
Just one bit of 'housekeeping' - it would be helpful to include your approximate location in your profile as this can be useful when people ask about local suppliers etc. Otherwise, just jump in!
Oh yes, I nearly forgot - we also love to see photos of period properties and features, so don't hold back if you feel the urge to post anything. :wink:
Penners
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Well, normally we expect two character references from prominent members of the community and a letter of introduction from the Bishop of Bath and Wells. But in the case of a professional, I'm sure we can make an exception.iockus said:
:wink:
Gareth Hughes
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In case anyone else is interested (and if you aren't, why are you here?), the 2011-12 Essex County Council traditional building skills programme of courses is available here:
http://www.the-edi.co.uk/traditionalbuildingskillscourses.php
Quite a few tempting events, and the possibility of financial assistance to attend, for some.
http://www.the-edi.co.uk/traditionalbuildingskillscourses.php
Quite a few tempting events, and the possibility of financial assistance to attend, for some.
Flyfisher
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Interesting courses. I wonder if they'd like a suitable property on which they could demonstrate the best repair methods.
Penners
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Damn! You beat me to it!Flyfisher said:Interesting courses. I wonder if they'd like a suitable property on which they could demonstrate the best repair methods.
biffvernon
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You're never going to get a job like that. It's like Flyfisher says; there are a handful of firms who do that kind of work and unless you get a job with one of them you are not going to be part of that business.robgil said:
But.
There is a lot of small scale work out there for self-employed sole traders. Conservation work on any sort of high status building is going to require bits of paper or a long track record, but that still leaves all the small repairs on ordinary old private houses and folk who want porches and conservatories, sheds and gazeebos. You won't get rich but you could keep busy.
Thats exactly what I would like to do long term Biff, I would also like to start with a firm though , preferably on new builds, just to learn the ropes. Working on very important high status buildings would be nice, working on old cottages and the like would be just as satisfying. Its a simple life I am after Biff, you dont have to earn a lot of money to have one of them.
I think a lot of reading , a lot of practising both on this cottage and perhaps another project ,chasing up an NVQ in carpentry/joinery and getting work with a local firm should see me on the right road.
I think a lot of reading , a lot of practising both on this cottage and perhaps another project ,chasing up an NVQ in carpentry/joinery and getting work with a local firm should see me on the right road.
biffvernon
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But take care with choosing your local firm.
We had a German helper (http://www.helpx.net/) staying with us last summer. He had trained as a joiner, the German way, straight lines, the right length, going in the right direction. He had tired of it and wanted in to green woodworking. He had been on a week's course of bodging in Wales and we took him to our friends, an oak framer, a pole-lathe turner. He was impressed that such folk still existed in England and was determined to learn the crafts and revive them in his native Swartzwald.
He did quite a lot of work with me on our roundhouse but one could see the inner turmoil, the struggle to resist the temptation to reach for the level and straight edge. I had to keep saying, "that's just fine, that'll do."
Some local firms will teach you the technique but not the soul.
We had a German helper (http://www.helpx.net/) staying with us last summer. He had trained as a joiner, the German way, straight lines, the right length, going in the right direction. He had tired of it and wanted in to green woodworking. He had been on a week's course of bodging in Wales and we took him to our friends, an oak framer, a pole-lathe turner. He was impressed that such folk still existed in England and was determined to learn the crafts and revive them in his native Swartzwald.
He did quite a lot of work with me on our roundhouse but one could see the inner turmoil, the struggle to resist the temptation to reach for the level and straight edge. I had to keep saying, "that's just fine, that'll do."
Some local firms will teach you the technique but not the soul.