This gate needs a date and a bell

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks Gareth, and thanks all. Nice to see you've all been having fun whilst I was poring over railings, gates, windows and staircases in Hampstead and at Handel's house.

(Have you been to Handel's house? It's great! I do wonder how he managed to compose anything, the floors are so creaky, and the natural light so minimal. I think it's a wonderful restoration and reconstruction and makes for a fascinating hour or two, and the best thing is that if you fake some half-convincing knowledge of restoration or Georgian design the guides let you sneak round all the off-limits parts)

If that gate is 1826-1845, then John Hall put it in, he was a tenant here looking after 45 acres. If it's 1845-1900 then it was William Burrows,or his son John, also farmers. William lived here with his wife, 7 children and a servant- where did they all sleep? I often worry about this. William and wife-one room. 7 children-the next bedroom?? Servant upstairs? Maybe the dining room was a bedroom then,there's a very old lock on the door. I wish I could go back in time and see it. And I do like to compose a timeline of who did what and when, so I know who to applaud and who to blame. And I wonder how much power tenants had in the 19th C to make permanent changes to their quarters and who did the choosing and paying. I wonder if tenants taking matters into their own hands and replacing or installing stuff caused as much of a rumpus as it does today.

As for bells, this one is big and beautiful and would do nicely:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Thanks Gareth, and thanks all. Nice to see you've all been having fun whilst I was poring over railings, gates, windows and staircases in Hampstead and at Handel's house.

(Have you been to Handel's house? It's great! I do wonder how he managed to compose anything, the floors are so creaky, and the natural light so minimal. I think it's a wonderful restoration and reconstruction and makes for a fascinating hour or two, and the best thing is that if you fake some half-convincing knowledge of restoration or Georgian design the guides let you sneak round all the off-limits parts)

Nope, Soane Museum for me every time (and its lovely, satirical Hogarths). But I do feel a slight moistening of the eye when this old story comes up (apropos the well-known chorus at the end of Part 2 of "Messiah")-

'There is another story told (perhaps apocryphally) about this chorus: that Handel's assistant walked in to Handel's room after shouting to him for several minutes with no response. The assistant reportedly found Handel in tears, and when asked what was wrong, Handel held up the score to this movement and said, "I thought I saw the face of God"'

Did you know Jimi Hendrix lived next door?

 

[Gervase]

I'd stick my neck out and say that it's either original or a mid 19th century copy. Hexagonal nuts have been in use since the 16th century - you sometimes see them on armour of the period. Admittedly they're unusual - they tended to be used more by armourers, gunsmiths and clockmakers in situations were the nut would have to removed or adjusted from time to time - but the presence of a hexagonal rather than a square nut doesn't rule out a pre-20th century date for the gate. The nuts could also be early 20th century replacements put on if the gate was rehung. Early hexagonal nuts were finished by hand-filing, and as a result each is unique in some tiny way, whereas 'modern' post-industrial nuts are machine made and absolutely uniform, so a closer inspection may give you a clue.
The overall workmanship is superb; if you compare it to the modern deer park gate you can see that the modern gate is butt-welded to pre-cast corners, while the old gate is morticed and tenoned together, and with some excellent drawing down of the steel's thickness from the corners. Whether 1790 or 1850, it's a beautiful piece of work, and there are very few smiths today who could match the quality (I certainly know that I couldn't!).

 

[Jon Maine]

with some excellent drawing down of the steel's thickness from the corners. Whether 1790 or 1850, it's a beautiful piece of work, and there are very few smiths today who could match the quality (I certainly know that I couldn't!).

Agreed, I couldn't either, I do suspect that it is wrought iron and why being my guess 100 to 150 years old many without paint the corrosion is minimal, bar in the scrolls where the water catches.

The blacksmith I used here is capable of such work, but if it is one in wrought iron would be very expensive. I paid £400 for enough for the hinges on 6 external doors, mild steel would have been 10% or less.

 

[JoceAndChris]

You lot are amazing. You see, Mr F. there are no holes in the PPUK collective knowledge.



Just examined the hexagonal nuts, (thanks Gervase for the fascinating insights re nuts) they're so thick with algae and age it's difficult to tell.

Nope, Soane Museum for me every time (and its lovely, satirical Hogarths). But I do feel a slight moistening of the eye when this old story comes up (apropos the well-known chorus at the end of Part 2 of "Messiah")-

OK, I'll go to the Soane next time, Hogarth is a favourite of mine too.

I'll go and peer round the unloved, identical gate down the road tomorrow, looking for mortices and tenons (?) or post-industrial nuts.

 

[chuckey]

I too have a similar problem. The jingle-jangle springs as found on shop door bells and servant summoning devices are spring steel which means that they would have a very short life if exposed to the elements. I tried some stainless steel strip, but it just sagged The ideal material would be phospher bronze, - corrosion free and springy, it also costs an arm and a leg. So I am reluctant to buy some just to find out its too short or long or thick or thin. I bought my bell from a car boot sale, about 2" diam, just right, a traditionel hand bell (5" diam?) would require some serious stiffness in the spring and gate action to get it going.
Just thought, its a chore, but I suppose I could put the spring in a weather proof box, cable operated to my garden door but the bell would have to be outside the box. Shouldn't take more then 1000 man hours to crack. :roll:
Frank

 

[Moo]

That's a timely warning about corrosion. We once lived in a house that had been the town doctor's residence/surgery and it was equipped with a bell so that he could be summoned from the far reaches of his garden in case of emergency. The bell (about 6" dia.) hung from a wonderful curly spring up underneath the eaves, and our children and their friends were fascinated by it. One day a visiting child gave the rope one pull too many, the spring snapped in two, and the bell plummeted to the ground, missing said child by a couple of inches.
We still have the bell. It sits on the floor in the hall and is used as a primitive intercom for people on the top floor.


ps
Not a very elegant solution, I know, but while you're saving up for the phosphor bronze, could you just attach a bell to the gate latch?

 

[DaveBrigg]

John Hall put it in...
William Burrows..

Wasn't John Hall Shakespeare's son-in-law? And William Burrows (OK, Burroughs) author of Naked Lunch 'one of the most important novels of the twentieth century'. What a literary house you have.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Wasn't John Hall Shakespeare's son-in-law? And William Burrows (OK, Burroughs) author of Naked Lunch 'one of the most important novels of the twentieth century'. What a literary house you have.

How I wish!

Back then a good plain name did the rounds, as you well know. Not like today: my last bunch of kids included Galatea, Athena, Tiger, Era, and Thor. :roll: Keeping a straight face during registration was no mean feat.

Thanks for timely tips regarding corrosion and child murdering bells, I'm looking out for ancient cowbells at the moment. A
bunch of these could work.

Jon, Penners, hope you enjoyed your vats of wine over the weekend, I did.