The Listed Property Owners Club?

[gothiceye]

Had a flyer through the door over the weekend from "The Listed Property Owners Club"

Wondered if anyone here had heard anything about it, as it mentioned that VAT is not payable on certain work on LBC properties...Apparently this club offers advice and information on suitable companies for "a modest £55 per month"

I have downloaded some info on the VAT reductions from the Inland Revenue (and am in the process of trying to decipher it and figure out how we can claim), and figured that names of suitable builders should be relatively easy to get hold of (perhaps?) so am wondering if this is either a handy bit of info or a scam? (http://www.LPOC.co.uk)

...This in the same weekend we received junkmail from a loan company offering to lend between £50 and £500 at a mere 117% interest!!!!

 

[MdB]

I bought a pair of jeans from M&S over the weekend and there was a business card for a get rich quick scheme in the back pocket...

 

[Nemesis]

It's run as a business. Many of the things it claims to do - such as lobby on behalf of owners of period properties - I have yet to see much sign of.

It may give some advice re VAT, but if you want to join an organisation for listed property owners I would suggest SPAB, the Vic Soc, Geo Group, c20th, etc would be where youir money would be better spent.

These will give you info too.

SPAB has a free helpline which non-members can use too.

Genuine conservation organisations are mostly members of Heritage Link.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

We were members of Listed Property owners club a long time ago. I have found PPUK and the sources mentioned by Nemisis more useful. I occasionally use the website when searching for a property to buy. I believe it to be just as good as the others, but in a different way.It depends what you want from the sites.

 

[Nemesis]

The others are national conservation organisitions and officially recognised as such by the government, and are consulted on Listed Building apps and government policy. They have as Trustees and Committee members (inter)nationally known figures in the world of conservation and historic buildings.

They genuinely lobby on behalf of the buildings, I tend to feel the LBOC has rather too many as members who simply want the cachet of owning a listed building, as long as they aren't restricted by laws etc when trying to alter!

 

[gothiceye]

that was my gut feeling too! Mind you with all the fun and games over the last few months (and the next few) I'm beginning to fancy owning an old house which isn't listed!!

 

[Lady_Mari]

I, too, used to be a member of LBOC many moons ago but whilst their magazine had some interesting articles, I felt it was aimed at the rather more wealthy than I folk.

Gothiceye, having owned both listed & unlisted, I am very happy to be unlisted now despite missing out on the fun & games. :roll:

 

[Penners]

I don't think the LPOC is a scam, but personally I entirely agree with Nemesis - the organisations she mentions represent much better value for money.

The broad principle as regards VAT on listed buildings is this - if you're carrying out new work on a listed building (an extension or similar) then you may qualify for zero rating provided the work has LBC. Repairs do not qualify for this VAT relief.

And you won't get VAT refunded. In order not to pay it, you have to find a builder and persuade him to zero-rate you when he sends you his invoice. So if you're DIY-ing, it's hard cheese I'm afraid.

I know, I know - it's crazy, but that's the law*.

*As explained to me by HMRC when I called them to see whether I could reclaim VAT spent on materials for my DIY work.

 

[Nemesis]

And the long running campaign to get VAT removed from repairs on listed buildings (indeed all buildings) has been carried out by the amenity societies as listed above,and other conservation bodies.

I have yet to discover what the LPOC has done to try to rectify the situation.

I posted this on Sept 4th:

Unfortunately, despite a long running effort by heritage bodies, the VAT situation, with the exception of places of worship, remains the same and will probably continue to do so into the future.

VAT can be reclaimed on alterations and new work to listed buildings, but not repair, and there is a reduced rate in certain circumstances for bringing empty buildings back into use.

That's it.

It's a shambles.

Memo to Brown: end VAT on repairs

Tuesday March 21, 2006
The Guardian


In his budget speech tomorrow (Brown's budget blow for "Chelsea tractors", March 20), the chancellor has a rare and important opportunity to reform the VAT regime to boost urban regeneration and housing provision, and protect our heritage. The Treasury has until March 31 to make representations to the European commission to reduce the rate of VAT on building repairs and conversions.

There are strong environmental, social and economic reasons for doing this. The differential between VAT rates currently levied on new build (0%) and repairs and conversions (17.5%) acts as a serious deterrent to urban regeneration, the maintenance of buildings, care for the historic environment, filling empty homes and making most efficient use of our housing stock - all objectives to which the government is committed.


The cost that VAT adds to repairs and refurbishment distorts the market by offering a perverse incentive to demolish sound buildings or leave them to rot, instead of maintaining them or refurbishing them for re-use. It also encourages greenfield development, contributing to a cycle of decline within towns and cities. Making better use of our existing buildings is essential to regeneration and can play an important part in cutting waste and conserving scarce resources such as land, energy and building materials. The anomaly of VAT on repairs has persisted for too long. We urge the chancellor to grasp this opportunity to put it right.

Shaun Spiers
CPRE

Brian Berry
Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors

Richard Pollard
Maintain our Heritage

Adam Wilkinson
SAVE Britain's Heritage

 

[Flyfisher]

So if you're DIY-ing, it's hard cheese I'm afraid.

Don't I know it! :evil:

I've read articles going back to 1999 regarding the lobbying to change the law - and no doubt it has been going on before that - so, despite all the hard work and lobbying by various august bodies, the government position would appear to be quite clear on the matter. :twisted:

 

[Nemesis]

Actually, from one response from a civil servant regarding the matter, I think the govenment hasn't any idea at all.

I could cite a letter stating that if VAT relief was allowed on repairs to listed buildings it would only aid the wealthy who would use it to alter and do new work to their homes...

 

[Flyfisher]

I meant that the government clearly has no interest in changing the current rules. From that position, it has little incentive to fully understand the impact, despite the good intentions of the various lobbyists. And I don't recall Gordy mentioning any change of heart in his party conference speech today, so that's probably it for at least another five years :roll:

 

[Nemesis]

It's now connected with EEC stuff.

He missed the chance.

As indeed did others before him. As apparently he/his civil servants failed to appreciate the problems.

But the rules have changed for places of worship.

 

[Nemesis]

Ere we go:

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmcumeds/912/912we57.htm

 

[Flyfisher]

But the rules have changed for places of worship.

Hmm. Can I deem my house to be a place of worship I wonder? I'll declare myself to be a follower of the Jedi religion (as permitted during the last census I seem to remember) and set up my house as a shrine to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Use The Force!

 

[Nemesis]

Yes, we registered as Jedi too.

http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_library/Press_notices/archive_2006/dcms041_06.htm

http://www.lpwscheme.org.uk/

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/vat/vat.htm

 

[NT]

But the rules have changed for places of worship.

Hmm. Can I deem my house to be a place of worship I wonder? I'll declare myself to be a follower of the Jedi religion (as permitted during the last census I seem to remember) and set up my house as a shrine to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Use The Force!

May the farce be with you


NT

 

[NT]

Governing bodies are very keen on control, and almost never give up control, ie a money stream, unless they get something by doing so. So I doubt they have any genuine interest in the lobbying on vat. This may explain the somewhat flippant reply mentioned.


NT

 

[CHRIS]

http://www.snopes.com/religion/jedi.asp

Another urban myth.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, my bank balance is so far intact...