The Deathly Silence

[FamilyWiggs]

Chernobyl - yes a disaster; but also an example of man harnessing technology to solve the problem of oil running out. Granted, nuclear energy is not fully mature as a technology and has problems remaining (we haven't worked out fully how to deal with the waste yet - but we will).

And you could argue in a very utilitarian way that the benefits of nuclear power to many many millions of people, far outstrip the health problems of the much fewer numbers affected by Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, etc. It's probably not a popular point to push - so I won't!

 

[biffvernon]

I find it very hard to care much,

Conifers, silverfish, woodlice, humans I don't personally know...yeah, there's a kind of pattern.

 

[biffvernon]

The other side of the problem is that rational scientifically trained people like me can still remain unconvinced that climate change is necessarily a man-made problem on the scale being projected.

What a pity the rational scientific training didn't work.

 

[Lime]

Chernobyl - yes a disaster; but also an example of man harnessing technology to solve the problem of oil running out. Granted, nuclear energy is not fully mature as a technology and has problems remaining (we haven't worked out fully how to deal with the waste yet - but we will).

And you could argue in a very utilitarian way that the benefits of nuclear power to many many millions of people, far outstrip the health problems of the much fewer numbers affected by Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, etc. It's probably not a popular point to push - so I won't!

I believe some restrictions are still in place on farms in the UK.

I have always been an advocate of nuclear fuel being used in a sensible way.
When you are aware of what went on in Chernobyl when it all went up you realise it was an accident waiting to happen.
In fact the operators were unaware of the major design faults of the reactor, the consequences of their actions and the physics of the reactor's nuclear particles.
This video gives some idea of their training (joke I hope)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1unXXB17O6o
A little too much magnesium I guess.

One of the observations that a study of the area surrounding Chernobyl has found is that animals are not all dying off. Far from it.
Their tolerance to radioactivity appears to have increased.

 

[Pford75]

:roll:

Most of these debates involve people with passionate views and most manage to articulate their own views without the need to resort to personal attacks/abuse. It's a sadly familiar trend that anyone who dares to question the righteous path of the AGW lobby is marked down as a facist/racist/nazi/idiot etc.

In my experience, people rarely respond to threats & abuse...perhaps that's just me?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well I don't feel threatened or abused, and I like to read others' views- sometimes they change my own. I jokingly referred to myself as a facist, but there is a huge difference between my insouciance and the deliberate mass murder that often accompanies facism, of course. I'm sorry if the term gave offence.

Biff can tease me all he likes, but he won't persuade me that I need to swap my roses back to conifers or stop vaccuuming up silverfish.

There need to be blithe spirits like me so the passionate campaigners have someone to shout at.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Pford, there is an element of poo pooing Biff whenever he informs us or warns us of anything though.

Telling him how he should be warning us etc.


He doesn't have to warn us in a gentle, kind persuasive manner :lol: Same as someone yelling at their children, "NO! DON'T TOUCH!!!" when they get too near the fire.

Silly analogy I know but I really don't see why Biff is in charge of gently persuading people when he is passing on important facts/possibilities.

I have learnt loads from his links and his posts and hopefully have taken on board some changes to lessen my damage.

 

[Pford75]

'Marm - I too find Biff's posts full of useful information and stuff that most of us would not otherwise come across in our normal daily activities. I don't for one minute want to stop this flow of valuable material.

But to continue your analogy, I find that my children respond far better if I sit down and explain to them, in measured terms, why they should and should not do certain things. Shouting and ranting loses it's impact in the long term

 

[Lime]

:roll:

Most of these debates involve people with passionate views and most manage to articulate their own views without the need to resort to personal attacks/abuse. It's a sadly familiar trend that anyone who dares to question the righteous path of the AGW lobby is marked down as a facist/racist/nazi/idiot etc.

In my experience, people rarely respond to threats & abuse...perhaps that's just me?

No I am much the same.
Personal comment is not required and not welcomed by most people IME particularly as it does nothing for an argument except distract.

My experience of the green movement back in the early 80s (from which the AGW lobby sprung) was that it consisted of caring people usually with children.
However there was also an odd combination of "yah-boo-sucks" and "let them eat cake" within it too, demonstrating to me how some groups of people were either isolated or insulated from other walks of life.
They are still within the movement.
IMO the watering down during the last few decades of absolute values (confusing opinion with hard fact) in schools combined with a general encouragement of self-importance, right or wrong, has led to science being a very variable source of truth.
In fact science can be used to prove anything as long as inconvenient parameters are hidden/ignored and sweeping generalisations are stated as if proven without doubt.
The rationale appears to be that if anything is repeated enough times by as many people as possible it become true.

 

[Schoolmarm]

'Marm - I too find Biff's posts full of useful information and stuff that most of us would not otherwise come across in our normal daily activities. I don't for one minute want to stop this flow of valuable material.

But to continue your analogy, I find that my children respond far better if I sit down and explain to them, in measured terms, why they should and should not do certain things. Shouting and ranting loses it's impact in the long term

:lol: :lol: I meant when the child has it's outstretched hands one inch away from said fire.

It wouldn't happen in my house either because we had fireguards.
Anyway you can't explain to a one year old toddler and some of the responses on here, not yours, are similar to a toddlers.

I shouldn't do analogies, they are always rubbish :lol:

 

[biffvernon]

There need to be blithe spirits like me so the passionate campaigners have someone to shout at.

See. All life forms, even gymniosperm and arthropod killers, have a role in the intricate complexity of existence.

 

[biffvernon]

anyone who dares to question the righteous path of the AGW lobby is marked down as a facist/racist/nazi/idiot etc.

Beware Godwin's Law.

 

[biffvernon]

Just such a pity Evelyn is not here. I would start a campaign for windfarms on the Tyne watershed.

 

[Schoolmarm]

:lol: :lol:

 

[biffvernon]

Near top of this thread

the errors tend to be on the wrong side.

Well, this is what I meant:

The most comprehensive modeling yet carried out on the likelihood of how much hotter the Earth's climate will get in this century shows that without rapid and massive action, the problem will be about twice as severe as previously estimated six years ago - and could be even worse than that.

more

 

[JoceAndChris]

There need to be blithe spirits like me so the passionate campaigners have someone to shout at.

See. All life forms, even gymniosperm and arthropod killers, have a role in the intricate complexity of existence.

I'm glad you find a small reason for my continued existence; how generous.

 

[JoceAndChris]

some of the responses on here, not yours, are similar to a toddlers.

Toddlers eh? I have no doubt you mean me. Toddlers have a frankness, integrity and optimism that adults would do well to try to emulate.

I'd like to say a whole lot more, but I'll gracefully retire from this thread, without descending to this level of pointless vitriol.

 

[yamin]

There need to be blithe spirits like me so the passionate campaigners have someone to shout at.

See. All life forms, even gymniosperm and arthropod killers, have a role in the intricate complexity of existence.

I'm glad you find a small reason for my continued existence; how generous.

Biff, are you Janeist? Or at least Buddhist? your respect for all things living, however small and creepy (sorry Joce :lol: ) does you credit! :wink:

 

[biffvernon]

As it happens, I killed a rabbit this morning. Lettuce good rabbit bad. Lettuce in the rabbit - I still get to eat the lettuce.
:twisted:

 

[Pford75]

Just in case some people labour under the popular misconception that business corporations are evil and entirely responsible for carbon emissions etc. Here's a little announcement from a company close to my own heart :wink:

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Cisco-NASDAQ-CSCO-998721.html