Terminology

[Nemesis]

Nonsense Penners - it's a compliment to your manhood. Be thrilled.

 

[BMcD]

Are they not called transoms as in the top and bottom transoms forming the window opening?

 

[biffvernon]

I think of a transom as the the bit of wood that goes across a window at just the height you want to look out. It crosses something, trans some.

 

[Flyfisher]

I've always thought of a transom as part of a boat, but it seems to also have an architectural definition, mainly to do with being a small window above a door, so I'm not sure it can be stretched to mean the supporting beam at the bottom of a window opening (i.e. the Penners beam :wink: )

 

[Penners]

I agree with Flyfisher. A transom - as I understand it - is a window above a door, or the stern panel of a boat.

 

[middi]

In Henry the VIII days the openings in of the oak framework which accepted the mullions and in rich houses where wrougt iron/lead casements were used, the horizontal section above was part of the beam which which we refer to as either a roof plate or an intermediate studs/boxframe beam if an upper floor was inserted.

The lower horizontal "bit" half way up the wall to accept the window frame could he refered to as the lower trunnion (?) as I frequently have heard addressed as.

" mullions and trunnions" what is wrong with that.!!.

It is a good question for creating an argument without a winner.

 

[Johneds]

It's a cill. (and that's cill, not sill) To differentiate from the window frame cill I would descibe it as the sub-cill or structural cill.

A transom can be any cross bar, beam, horizontal element etc. But I think these days it is used almost exclusively to describe the horizontal part of a window frame.

 

[Flyfisher]

Cill (or Sill) makes sense as it just means foundation.

So a window cill/sill could refer to the foundation part of a window frame and a cill/sill beam could refer to the foundation for the entire window assembly. Seems to me that it depends on the context.

For a completely different context, it could also mean a structure to retain water at low tide within an inner harbour - especially in the context of Torquay Harbour apparently.

So maybe it all depends how much water the window is trying to keep out :wink:

 

[Penners]

Canal locks also have cills (OK - I give in on the spelling!). They're what the bottom of the gates close against.

If you don't manage your boat properly when you're locking down (ie: draining the lock to lower your boat) you can catch the stern on the cill and upend the craft.

Thanks for all the contributions and meanderings, everyone. All very interesting stuff. Based on the concensus, I shall refer to the horizontal member below the window cill as the sub-cill.

At least I then stand an outside chance of sounding as though I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Nemesis]

I will not make the obvious ribald remark about horizontal members.

Oh well maybe I might... cos Grimmers would have done.

 

[biffvernon]

Google scores:

Sill = 7,350,000
Cill = 690,000

 

[Nemesis]

But that's cos it's an Americanism.

 

[biffvernon]

GoogleUK scores:

Cill = 105,000
Sill = 495,000

 

[MdB]

Google scores:

Sill = 7,350,000
Cill = 690,000

You need to make a google fight of this

 

[biffvernon]

 

[Nemesis]

The etymology is actually syll - OE - but both seem to be used, and there are several dictionary definitions :

a horizontal member placed on top of a foundation wall in order to carry a timber framework;

a horizontal piece along the outside lower member of a window that throws water clear of the wall below;

a shelf at the bottom of a window inside a room - which I think Biff terms the window board!

 

[biffvernon]

Yes. But I think that the trouble with the Penners Beam, is that it really doesn't have much to do with windows. It's part of the box frame. The window just happens to be stuck in one of the gaps in the framing to allow more light in than the normal wattle and daub.

 

[Nemesis]

I think Penners Beam it has to be really.

It has a certain ring to it.

 

[andrew gayton]

Rtaher late.... but I have just seen this....



I would call it a 'rail'....................... joist bearers are called 'girt' (old term for girth)......

 

[Nemesis]

Just to muddy the waters:

'As temporary bracing, a scheme of lateral support or shuttering may be devised to fasten the infill in position [Figure 29]. It may be necessary to support the panel on both faces. Where the bottom rail or cill is to be removed...'


From:

http://www.tonygraham.co.uk/house_repair/wattle_daub/WD-5_3.html