Suggestions For This Chimney Breast

[malcolm]

I like to leave the inside of the fireplace in brick. For the outside the fireplace that I haven't altered has brick on the outside. The one I rebuilt is plastered because the bricks were damaged and not presentable. Couple of photos:

 

[aockenden]

I like to leave the inside of the fireplace in brick. For the outside the fireplace that I haven't altered has brick on the outside. The one I rebuilt is plastered because the bricks were damaged and not presentable. Couple of photos:

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Yeah that creamy white mottled lime plaster with the contrast of the red soldiers is really attractive, nicely done. Definitely an option I’ll be running by the wife.

 

[a twig]

What was his reasoning for making you go that deep? Was he an LABC, or private?

Private - said he thought the soil was sooty (not sure what that means) and he was concerned about root growth from a dead 8ft cypress tree that was within 5m of one of the corners

Even the builder said he is the most difficult inspector he has ever worked with in 40 years (obviously usual pinch of salt with such pronouncements)

 

[stuart45]

Normally private are slightly easier to work with, as they need a reasonable reputation. To be fair to the LABC, I've never had the issues that you had with them. When there were only council BCO's, they did have the monopoly, but even then most were reasonable.
The problem with foundations is that until you've dug them out you can't tell if they'll pass. Occasionally you're going into good ground and then you get into made up ground where someone's buried a water tank or car.

 

[Lacan07]

I like to leave the inside of the fireplace in brick. For the outside the fireplace that I haven't altered has brick on the outside. The one I rebuilt is plastered because the bricks were damaged and not presentable. Couple of photos:

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Thats lovely Malcolm

 

[Lacan07]

There is a significant difference in the mortars between the two openings. The soldiers and all the side-bricks on the brick oven are bedded in a very soft lime + clay mortar which is common on the deepest layers of building fabric throughout the house. The other opening however seems to be mortared together with a semi-modern Portland cement. So if I had to guess I’d say the brick oven might be original.

I do like the brick arch look as an alternative to a lintel. What say you on plastering vs limewashing vs exposed re-pointing?

A repoint and thin coat of white lime wash might work, the bricks are suitably rustic without looking like a building site. However, I really like the 'lime plaster with brick archway and brick interior' look.

 

[Lacan07]

I like to leave the inside of the fireplace in brick. For the outside the fireplace that I haven't altered has brick on the outside. The one I rebuilt is plastered because the bricks were damaged and not presentable. Couple of photos:

View attachment 13390

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How did you do those external corners Malcolm?

 

[a twig]

Normally private are slightly easier to work with, as they need a reasonable reputation. To be fair to the LABC, I've never had the issues that you had with them. When there were only council BCO's, they did have the monopoly, but even then most were reasonable.
The problem with foundations is that until you've dug them out you can't tell if they'll pass. Occasionally you're going into good ground and then you get into made up ground where someone's buried a water tank or car.

Sure, in this case I’m honestly wishing we’d gone with the council! We dug the footings out to 600mm with no issues found, but then he insisted on 1.2m. We went to 1.2m with no issues - he came back and said he’d had a think and we needed to go to 1.9m

All for a single storey extension when the rest of the house which is two storey has happily sat on 300mm for 150 years

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Looks gorgeous!!

 

[malcolm]

How did you do those external corners Malcolm?

The edges of the bricks had been chipped off on the inside corners. I plastered the face then used one of those rounded concrete edging trowels running against a bit of wood propped inside the opening to get a curve. The rest of the curve will be filler when I get around to it.

It's not necessarily the best way to do the edge.

The external corners are just lime. There was never a bead or rusty metal thing in those.

 

[aockenden]

What do people think the likelihood of the old bread-oven having been filled up with something nasty (like potentially Asbestos contaminated vermiculite)?

 

[aockenden]

I carefully opened up the top of the bread oven and found that this archway is also supported with an iron arch. The interior of the oven appears to just be filled with random rubble. I assume if it has been filled with vermiculite the firebox would be completely filled with loose vermiculite fill?

 

[aockenden]

I also looked more carefully at the cement around the archway on the right, and I realized it's actually just surface-level cement POINTING on the surface of an older clay + lime bedding joint. And given the nearly identical construction between the two openings (now that I know the bread-oven has the same iron arch-support), I believe that they are likely BOTH originals (or at least, original enough to be done with lime and clay). The strange colour of the red bricks that @malcolm mentioned is likely the effect of a red paint that they slapped onto the entire chimney breast (at some point prior to the cement render), presumably to get the stone and brick to blend-in together better. The brick archway is over 60cm wide.

So the entire approach we will take (assuming I convince the wife), is to sell the existing woodburner, replace it with a smaller one that will fit into the existing archway on the right, finish opening-up the bread oven, scrape all the cement out from between the soldiers on the right and remove any other cement pointing on the interior of both openings, repoint the interior of both openings with lime putty, build up the top-left shoulder until it's above finished ceiling height so the entire structure is roughly rectangular, then plaster the entire chimney breast minus the red brick soldiers above both openings in lime putty. And we will store our stacked firewood in the old bread-oven.

 

[aockenden]

I finished opening-up the bread oven tonight. It’ll hold 2 arm-loads of wood which I’m super happy about. I think it’s already looking better, more characterful and interesting.

 

[Kearn]

how sure are you it’s a bread oven? Might be the pics, but looks a little low. You’d need a decent depth of stack behind also - is there?. Any info on location in building / building age etc?

Was this a service room / kitchen?

seems that the smaller opening is contemporary with the structure, whereas the one on the right is later, as are the bricks above it, but the right side of your image on screen appears contemporary with the left. Was there maybe a taller opening alongside, potentially a range? Looks fairly rudimentary in build - like an attempt at quoins and rubble infill, but with smaller stones and non course bricks - curious!

Heath is obviously quite recent, but so is the floor. Never know what you might find until you start exploring!

i’d be inclined to investigate… but then again, that tends to get me into avenues i can’t back out of!

I reckon the larger opening is deeper and much taller, and could be opened to original size and you could get a stove into the recess, then do away with the protruding hearth depending on your approach to regs etc.

I’d also be intrigued as the smaller opening, but expect if was an oven, the roof may have collapsed so decent effort to restore depending on access.
Once all said and done, it deserves to be plastered over again, the construction was functional not aesthetic.

What’s the room to be?

 

[aockenden]

how sure are you it’s a bread oven? Might be the pics, but looks a little low. You’d need a decent depth of stack behind also - is there?. Any info on location in building / building age etc?

Was this a service room / kitchen?

seems that the smaller opening is contemporary with the structure, whereas the one on the right is later, as are the bricks above it, but the right side of your image on screen appears contemporary with the left. Was there maybe a taller opening alongside, potentially a range? Looks fairly rudimentary in build - like an attempt at quoins and rubble infill, but with smaller stones and non course bricks - curious!

Heath is obviously quite recent, but so is the floor. Never know what you might find until you start exploring!

i’d be inclined to investigate… but then again, that tends to get me into avenues i can’t back out of!

I reckon the larger opening is deeper and much taller, and could be opened to original size and you could get a stove into the recess, then do away with the protruding hearth depending on your approach to regs etc.

I’d also be intrigued as the smaller opening, but expect if was an oven, the roof may have collapsed so decent effort to restore depending on access.
Once all said and done, it deserves to be plastered over again, the construction was functional not aesthetic.

What’s the room to be?

We’ve been told the house is between 200 and 250 years old. No idea what this room was originally but I would have guessed a kitchen just because of this thing. It’s destined to be a dining room.

I’m far from an expert on whether it’s actually a bread oven or not, I just don’t know what else to call it and I was under the impression most houses of this age had one. The depth of the cavity I just opened here is 47cm. The opening on the right has a nearly identical depth (48-49 cm). I’ve come to believe both openings are original (or close to it), as they both have very similar constructions (thick blacksmithed iron straps supporting a brick arch) and both have very soft lime + clay bedding mortars used on all the surrounding bricks (including to bed the soldiers onto the iron straps).

The weird colour of some bricks may be due to the fact that the entire breast (including the stones) was painted in a red paint at some point prior to cement render going on. See pic.

 

[Kearn]

We’ve been told the house is between 200 and 250 years old. No idea what this room was originally but I would have guessed a kitchen just because of this thing. It’s destined to be a dining room.

I’m far from an expert on whether it’s actually a bread oven or not, I just don’t know what else to call it and I was under the impression most houses of this age had one. The depth of the cavity I just opened here is 47cm. The opening on the right has a nearly identical depth (48-49 cm). I’ve come to believe both openings are original (or close to it), as they both have very similar constructions (thick blacksmithed iron straps supporting a brick arch) and both have very soft lime + clay bedding mortars used on all the surrounding bricks (including to bed the soldiers onto the iron straps).

The weird colour of some bricks may be due to the fact that the entire breast (including the stones) was painted in a red paint at some point prior to cement render going on. See pic.

View attachment 13515

It’s not the colour, they’re different, later more uniform bricks, laid in a course - appears infilled to the blue scribble to me, which is why I wondered if the yellow outlined area was originally a tall range opening. The flue clearly is higher than both arches so there’s a bigger opening behind.
The bigger arch looks later too, bricks appear gauged to make a more rounded arch compared to the functional smaller one.
My thoughts with an oven are that having it that low is just not helpful to those using it, would’ve expected it higher for ease of use - both edible contents, but also loading in the hot ashes to heat it from the adjacent fire. Possible it has its own flue joining the main one.