Strip old windows of modern paint?

[JoceAndChris]

I'm interested to know if anyone here would go to the lengths of removing all traces of "plastic" paint and starting a linseed oil system.

 

[JoceAndChris]

My poll title should really be "linseed oil based paint", but I only had 100 characters. I don't want anyone to get the impression I'm advocating the inauthentic look of naked wood on windows!

 

[johnandrew]

I am wondering the same thing. I need to repaint a couple of west facing top windows this year . I must admit I do rather like the idea of trying this linseed oil paint.

If I replace the burnt sand mastic stuff should I paint that with the linseed oil paint too or leave bare?

 

[JoceAndChris]

Could you explain more about what you mean by "burnt sand mastic stuff"? Where is that currently?

 

[Schoolmarm]

It is usually used around the window where it joins the brick or stone. Like a fillet to fill the gap.

 

[Ian Bond]

I would never strip off the old layers of lead paint, as long as they are firmly adhered, as they are providing excellent protection for the wood.

Stripping off all the lead paint is also removing the historic record of decoration. I only remove the paint if absolutely necessary to make repairs, for example if the sashes are jammed due to over painting or the timber has rotted due to neglect.

I've had a lot of trouble repainting after using chemical paint strippers, and I won't be using them again on my windows. I wouldn't be happy using hot air guns near irreplaceable historic glass either. I've seen steam being used to remove paint and putty, with the sashes removed and placed into steam cabinets, but would only consider this if the sashes needed extensive repair and reglazing.


I've managed to repair and decorate all of my old windows using linseed paint without completely stripping them back to bare timber. I've just washed and sanded the old paint work to give a good key, before applying 3 thin coats of linseed paint. I used Holkham's for the windows, and quicker-drying Aglaia for the doors and am pleased with the results. The paint has only failed on one window that I used chemical strippers on, and all the rest are fine after several years, which is more than I can say for the F&B paint I used, that lasted under 1 year.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Ian, that is just so useful and reassuring, thankyou. I agree with you that stripping paint near windows is extremely risky. I've done it, and cracked two panes with the heat gun last time. However I thought it was necessary to get to bare wood if you wish to start with linseed oil, otherwise the breathing nature of the paint is compromised.

I can clearly see the delineation of old and new paint type finishes on my windows, the new paint has peeled right off. I don't think they've been painted at all in the last 10 years. Hopefully this will make the preparation a little easier if I'm just aiming to remove the loose, peeling modern stuff.

So just sandpaper to provide the key then, and linseed oil putty in the gaps between pane and wood?

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

I've been making some new oak sash windows for my house, which will soon be ready for installation. I considered using linseed paint - I've used it in other situations and I like the coverage, the smell and the eco-credentials. But I'm put off by the very long drying time and the even longer hardening time - I just don't see it being a practical proposition for windows which have sliding components. Yes, the initial coats can be applied in the workshop, but maintenance coats would have to be in-situ and short of removing the sashes and boarding up the frame I can't really see how a 48 hour drying time can easily be accomodated.

So I'm hoping to find another way, trialing some Osmo white opaque finish. I'm a big fan of Osmo finishes, and if their opaque products are anything like as good as their clear finishes then I'll be well pleased. Once the windows are instaled I'll post some pics and let you know how the finish fares in our challenging Lancashire coastal climate.

My experience with Holkham linseed paint has been good, but I wonder if other people have found that the initial gloss quickly dulls to a matt finish as I have.

 

[biffvernon]

Don't paint the bits that slide! Just apply a little beeswax and they will slide so much easier.

 

[Ian Bond]

The drying time is not such a problem on the windows. I daren't paint the large door surfaces with slow drying paint lest a visitor accidentally gets paint on their clothes, despite my "Wet Paint" signs. And handy can of turps for emergency clean-ups.

The beauty of sliding sashes is that you can slide them almost shut, and secure with bolts - the ones that screw into the stiles. Just move the sashes every so often to make sure they don't stick. If you paint sparingly, and avoid painting the bits that slide, as Biff just said, then you shouldn't have any trouble.

I've found that the linseed paint dries within 2-3 days even ontop of well prepared, old painted surfaces. The worst problem is that the windows turn into fly-paper whilst the paint's stil wet, which isn't very pleasant. Dust and dead flies can be wiped off when the paint's dry, so it's not a serious problem.

 

[johnandrew]

Sorry to hi-jack your post Joce.

Can I just paint this window with linseed paint or does it need filling/repairing? The wood is firm but seems very dry. This window face west.

View attachment 2
View attachment 1

 

[Ian Bond]

For larger areas of rot and damage I piece in new timber, but just fill smaller cracks and gaps. Either using linseed putty, or a 2 part filler for bigger holes.

Fortunately my old windows have stood up well to neglect, thanks to the quality of the timber and good design. I've had to replace a couple of sills, but the sashes have only needed minor repairs. The linseed paint has stuck perfectly well to the filler, old painted sashes and new oak sills.

Where I've gone down to bare timber, I apply the first coat of linseed paint warmed, so it soaks in better. I've not bothered with buying the Holkham linseed oil specifically for this as I don't have lots of bare wood to prime, hence just use the paint. If you've got lots of wood to prime you'd be wasting money using the expensive paint, so it'd be worth getting the oil.

Obviously the more effort you put into the preparation, the better the finished job will be, so it's worth spending time rubbing down the old paintwork and filling the cracks, and of course making sure the putty is sound. You don't want water getting into the open joints, or behind defective putty or mastic and ruining all your hard work.

Personally I don't paint the mastic (kiln dried silver sand, boiled linseed oil) because I think it looks better with my unpainted stone house. If you are going to paint the mastic the linseed paint should stick well. The old mastic around my windows had been painted with modern gloss, which was peeling off in places.

 

[Me!]

Well, please take note of my earlier queston.
I did email Holkham as suggested and have not had any reply. My plan had been to sand back to bare wood on at least some of the windows, and start from scratch with Holkham's linseed paints. Until I get an answer to the matt finish, ....... that plan is shelved.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Why don't you like matt paint? It sounds lovely to me, I don't like shiny at all and that's one thing that's putting me off linseed oil paint. (though after reading all this I think linseed oil paint, or at least breathable paint, is the way to go, and if it dulls to a matt finish then that's brilliant)

Anyway, many, many thanks for all the wonderful help and ideas contributed - and John - what you posted wasn't hijacking at all but very helpful! I feel much better qualified to tackle this job now, and it really can't be put off much longer now the warmer weather is finally here.

Fortunately there are only 15 windows, plus the doors, and the sills are made of lead- hurrah! Not sure what to do with the fancy chestnut guttering, which had something Ronsealy and varnishy on it at present. :?

 

[Feltwell]

I'm interested to know if anyone here would go to the lengths of removing all traces of "plastic" paint and starting a linseed oil system.

Yep - I have done. No traces of original lead paint on my windows, just 3 layers of modern gloss, all flaking off. My linseed paint has gone I would say towards matt - somewhere between matt & satin - when used externally. The colour does change with age as well, even after just a year.

Burnt sand mastic is great stuff - don't bother with fancy mixes from the PP suppliers, I just used B&Q boiled linseed oil and kiln dried block paving sand, mixed it in a paint kettle until it looked right. It did exactly what everyone says - I trowelled it on carefully with a "leaf and trowel" (sometimes called a Plasterer's small tool...... stop sniggering at the back!). It stayed wet for ages, then one day just suddenly went rock hard. Seems to work a treat and I don't see any reason why you couldn't paint over it with linseed paint if you wanted to, although I just put it on neatly and left it at that.

 

[essexbearhunter]

At the risk of being turfed out for Heresy, for many years I have used International Paints Ranch Paint....and would probably still use it today, if it were available.

It is micro-porous (i.e, breatheable ) and lasts incredibly well (I hate re-painting and the front window has survived 30 years with my original coating plus a top-up about 4 years ago). Not being a gloss, the white hasn't yellowed and it is doesn't need a separate undercoat. Couldn't ask for more.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for your input, Feltwell and essexbearhunter.

http://www.international-paints.co.uk/products/info/10_year_exterior_gloss.jsp

must be the stuff ebh uses? Don't see what's heretical about that at all. However there's no colour there that would suit.

 

[johnandrew]

Not sure what to do with the fancy chestnut guttering, which had something Ronsealy and varnishy on it at present. :?

I seem to remember yours are lead lined so you just need to maintain the exterior.

I have spent way too much time procrastinating about guttering and phoning random people with annoying questions. I'm a bit like a dog with a bone and can't let it go. Most can't understand why I would want to use wood when I could have plastic (and indeed they may be right in this case). But my main concern is longevity. I don't want to make the missus spend 10k on rainwater drainage unless it is going to last a well long time. One chap suggested tanalised softwood guttering would last about 20 years, which he said was the same a plastic! 20 years! B***** that...it takes me that long to do most of my house projects. I want at least 70 years.

My current thinking is to get the very tall rear elevation done in twinplas. The front section I'll then have done in standard tanalised softwood guttering painted with bitumen paint on one part. The other part I will have done in western red cedar that will be oiled on the interior and painted on the exterior. Blue ox reccommend chevron shingle oil but I cant seem to find that in the UK. Apparently it is a (napthenic) mineral oil. And they use that a lot for hydraulics and other lubrications apparently. With the two wooden guttering systems and the plastic I can then work out for myself how long each lasts.

 

[Feltwell]

I wouldn't bother with plastic guttering personally. It's brittle, it fades, it creaks like mad when it expands and contracts (which mine did every time the sun came out or in again, literally!) and if you put a ladder against it you risk breaking it.

When replacing my roof, I put cast iron up as per the original but I have 2 dormer windows that are only accessible by spending a small fortune on scaffolding. Wanting something as maintenance free and durable as possible, following a recommendation on here I put this stuff up:-

http://www.lindab.co.uk/dokumenter/ARC0904_12pp rainline.pdf

It's very good, much better than plastic. I ordered it through my local Travis Perkins.

 

[Penners]

Joce - just adding my voice to others above: while I suppose the absolute ideal would be painstakingly to remove all traces of old paint, then to repaint entirely with linseed paint, I honestly think that the daunting prospect of doing this on fifteen windows makes it just out of the question.

So - if it were me - I would adopt the pragmatic solution of removing all loose paint, washing and fine-sanding the stable paint, then linseed-painting the entire frame.