Straightening speed fit pipe

[downshifter]

Hi
We have finally bought our cottage in Wales after much wrangling with Land Registry. Our first move is to plumb in some speedfit pipework to the outbuildings for a tap, sink, washing machine point etc. and have bought a coil of JG pipe work. Great system to use but how do we straighten the pipe so we can make nice elbow joints etc.

Thanks
Huw

 

[Feltwell]

Not sure you can Huw. I have an inbuilt distrust of push-fit plumbing systems, they are extremely easy to fit but I always worry what will happen in 20 years time when the o-rings in the fittings are getting elderly. However, for outbuildings, I have to agree they are likely to be better than copper as they are less prone to bursting if they freeze.

My parents have just had their central heating system replaced, the plumber used push fit and plastic pipe where it was hidden but used copper for all the exposed runs - precisely because the plastic won't stay straight. I would have used soldered copper throughout but it's their house, not mine!

 

[robgil]

you can either use clips or just buy 3 meter lengths of straight pipe. remember rodents like to chew push fit and i always use barrier pipe when i can.

 

[Penners]

The only solution is to use lots of clips. Warmth will help to straighten the tube, but it's not entirely successful.

Polybutylene tube is said to be better to manipulate than pex (I haven't yet tried it myself), and I believe Speedfit now do a PB tube.

PS: Pedantic point number 347: plumbing "pipe" is correctly referred to as "tube", because its diameter is measured externally. There's no particular point to this piece of information, except that using the correct term makes you feel satisfactorily superior to those ignorami who don't! :wink:

 

[robgil]

the technical term is indeed tube, sometimes pipe will also have a larger wall width.

 

[Flyfisher]

PS: Pedantic point number 347: plumbing "pipe" is correctly referred to as "tube", because its diameter is measured externally. There's no particular point to this piece of information, except that using the correct term makes you feel satisfactorily superior to those ignorami who don't! :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Indeed, and it's something that I'm always being picked up on by an engineering friend who spent much of his working life with industrial steam boilers and assorted heavy machinery.

At least I'm only half an ignoramus - I know about the pipe-vs-tube difference, but I can rarely remember which is which.

 

[downshifter]

Thanks for the replies,
I hadnt considered the long term sustainability of the fittings but I beleive theyve been around for a while with little problems that Im aware of. We are intending to do the fitting ourselves so using copper is not a skill we are familiar with and isnt it more expensive?
To the pendantic responses I used the term pipe as that is what the John Guest catalogue and website use, but hey what do they know!
ta

 

[robgil]

copper is much more expensive. if yoyu fit speed fit right , use a proper push fit tube cutter, always cut on the mark and push home to the next mark up, always use a permanent marker for the cut and the next mark up so if one does blow off you are covered by the warranty and they cant argue that you didnt push the fitting home properly and always use a pressure tester , very important this, if you have a weak connection on a fitting a pressure test will find it. ive had a few fittings blow off during pressure tests when putting heating systems into new builds, much easier than replacing ceilings.

 

[MdB]

but how do we straighten the pipe so we can make nice elbow joints etc.

I believe it is a right of passage in the plumbing world to have the end of a coil of plastic pipe whip up and hit you in the face whilst trying to straighten it. If so, I qualify

 

[Flyfisher]

We are intending to do the fitting ourselves so using copper is not a skill we are familiar with and isnt it more expensive?

Copper is more expensive but if it's a DIY project then you'll be saving so much money anyway that the additional materials cost is pretty small in comparison.

Skills-wise, copper is certainly a bit more involved, but anyone with reasonable practical skills and a methodical approach should really not have too many problems after a bit of practice. Yorkshire fittings (the pre-soldered ones) are very easy to use and, in my experience, very reliable. Bending pipes is also very easy with the correct tool, although getting the bend in exactly the right place can be tricky. If you can overcome initial reluctance to have a go then practice will very quickly make perfect.

I've used plenty of the plastic pipe and fittings when temporarily rearranging our antiquated plumbing, and very quick and easy it is too, but for the final work there's something very solid and reassuring about copper.

 

[Onetap]

You can buy straight lengths of Speedfit.
You can also get pex-al-pex pipe, which has an aluminium core in a plastic sandwich, so it stays where it is put when it is bent. I don't know who sells it in the UK, other than in huge coils from the big UFH manufacturers.
Mice gnaw plastic. Copper is liable to be nicked by nomadic caravan dwellers.

 

[Feltwell]

I've used plenty of the plastic pipe and fittings when temporarily rearranging our antiquated plumbing, and very quick and easy it is too, but for the final work there's something very solid and reassuring about copper.

Glad I'm not the only luddite then! :wink:

 

[Penners]

If you want to use copper tube (q.v. :wink: ) you don't, of course, have to use copper fittings. Speedfit fittings (elbows, straight connectors, etc.) work just as well with copper as they do with plastic tube. And you don't have to put the tube-end inserts into copper.

Just be sure that the end of the copper tube is thoroughly clean and smooth, so as not to damage the neoprene sealing ring in the fitting. A rotating cutter is particularly useful in this context, as it tends to leave the cut end of the copper tube tapered slightly inwards.

 

[robgil]

if you do use copper try and be aware of waste, you can easily end up with a big bag of expensive useless off cuts left over through trial and error.

 

[Feltwell]

if you do use copper try and be aware of waste, you can easily end up with a big bag of expensive useless off cuts left over through trial and error.

Now that's definitely true!

I prefer soldered copper, it does seem, like FF said, just more reassuringly solid. I have taken to using flexible tails with a compression fitting though for connecting up to taps and the like - if they are hidden - they do make life a lot easier.

I'm currently in the process of moving my central heating header tank and cold water tank into our "loft" - a tiny space just under the roof apex - it's a pig of a job, no room to work in.

 

[Flyfisher]

If you want to use copper tube (q.v. :wink: ) you don't, of course, have to use copper fittings. Speedfit fittings (elbows, straight connectors, etc.) work just as well with copper as they do with plastic tube. And you don't have to put the tube-end inserts into copper.

Good point, and something I've taken full advantage of when re-arranging our plumbing. My favourite use of speedfit fittings is a straight connector fitted with a 2-3 inch stub of copper tube with the end squashed flat and soldered. This makes a very quick and easy speedfit 'stop-end' for existing plumbing, which I've used many times when fiddling around with the plumbing.

 

[Flyfisher]

I prefer soldered copper, it does seem, like FF said, just more reassuringly solid. I have taken to using flexible tails with a compression fitting though for connecting up to taps and the like - if they are hidden - they do make life a lot easier.

Yep, me too - including the ones with the built-in isolation valves.

 

[Feltwell]

My favourite use of speedfit fittings is a straight connector fitted with a 2-3 inch stub of copper tube with the end squashed flat and soldered. This makes a very quick and easy speedfit 'stop-end' for existing plumbing, which I've used many times when fiddling around with the plumbing.

You can get speedfit type stop ends - I've a few, and use them for exactly the purpose you describe. Very handy for quickly and temporarily blanking off a pipe run.

I've also been steadily fitting the "full-bore" type isolation valves round the house, so if for example I'm doing plumbing work in the bathroom I can leave the downstairs loo, wash basin, kitchen sink and washing machine "live". Being the full-bore type they don't restrict the flow much.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, I've seen the speedfit stop-ends but I'm too mean to buy something that only has one use when I can buy a straight-joint and use it for both. It also gives me a use for those short lengths of copper tube offcuts. :wink:

As for valves, I also regard them as an indispensible part of any plumbing work. As you rightly say, it means the rest of the house can remain in operation while working on the next phase of plumbing, which also removes a lot of the pressure to rush things, which is when mistakes can happen. I favour the lever-operated ones as I've read they are less prone to seizing up.

 

[robgil]

Dont rely on isolation valves too much guys , they do seize up. Ive come across a few seized valves and had a few break on me when i tried to turn them with a screw driver, the screw head breaks off , the rubber o ring pops out and a jet of water follows it.
iso9lating valves on flexi tap tails are useless, what if the flexy bursts? you can isolate it but you cannot change it. all they really do it stop things getting wet while you turn the stop cock, ok on the hot side while you drain down but pretty useless on the cold.

i like to keep my plumbing simple, the less weak points the better and the ability to drain down from the lowest point is always a good idea.