Stories: how to preserve?

[JoceAndChris]

There should be a law that each new occupant should leave a minimum of ten really great, juicy stories about the house, in the house. We found a tradesman's grievance from 1914 scrawled on a panel and that was really exciting; he was complaining of low pay and a Labour government! Plus ca change!

I just had a lovely chat with the previous occupant's son where he talked about his childhood memories of living here, how he was excused school uniform because he arrived too muddy, life by candlelight etc. (Incidentally it is my opinion this house tragically killed off his mother in her prime).

Any ideas about how these stories can be preserved with the house? Stuff them under the floorboards? A large book of trivia in the porch? Personally; I'm thinking of turning a shed into a mini museum complete with soundtracks and headphone sets. Naff I know but what else can be done?

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm thinking of turning a shed into a mini museum complete with soundtracks and headphone sets. Naff I know but what else can be done?

So long as it has disabled access, braille, large print and at least 20 different languages you should be ok!!!!!!

I write things down, like during this week a couple turned up whose parents lived locally, their Mom worked in service in the house, so I made notes of their tales. I love this sort of stuff.
I keep a paper record, keep it on my pc and write about it on places like this so everyone can moan at me for writing rubbish :lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

We're also collecting info relating to the history of our house, but it's all a bit haphazard at present. I suppose a website is the ideal way to collate everything as it enables text, photos and video to be integrated into a single repository, especially audio or video recordings of personal reminicences. It needn't actually be on the web, of course, and could be easily compiled and kept on a PC. If the house is subsequently sold a copy could be left on CD or DVD.

I've also been compiling all the photos I've taken of works-in-progress into photobooks, which I think are a great way of documenting a 'project'.

 

[Carol]

I have a large folder with all our house stuff filed, things like copies of the census to identify 'our 'residents in the nineteenth century and all the LBCs, and other bits we have acquired since we moved in. After reading this I think I should write down those verbal snippets too.

Our house was a business throughout the 20th century and several very elderly residents of the town have told us how they would come with their fathers to get his wages each week from a formidable secretary. Apparently this lady would make the woodsmen and farm labourers sit on a wooden settle in what is now our entrance hall and wait until they could bang the thick mud off their work boots, before she would allow them into the office to collect their pay. Given the solidity of Somerset mud this must have been time consuming.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

It's a really difficult topic - how to preserve information for future generations, and one I have no knowledge of.

I do worry however about the longevity of things like papers and photos - especially if you store things electronically. Who knows who long DVDs/CDs last and how long we'll be able to read them for. For instance - how many people can still read 5.25 inch floppy discs - *the* storage medium of the 1908s? Who can still play a betamax video? Increasingly few of us can play tapes or even vinyl. Paper tape or wax cyclinders were once a reasonable storage medium...

Storing info on the web is a nice idea - but given many of our oldest historical documents have had to survive the cataclysm that destored the civilisations that created them, how can we be sure that electronic documents will survive anythign more than a decade or few?

I think the only way to ensure that histories are available into the future is to make copies in a variety of formats - web, DVD, paper, etc.

I think the oldest surviving documents (save carvings and cave art!) we have are Egyption and written on papyrus - maybe we should be using that!! :lol:

 

[Lime]

I think any electronic means of long-term storage unsafe.
Properly cared for acid-free paper with a long-life water-based ink upon it will outlast everything electronic we now have or are likely to have.

There are several methods of printing/copying paper documents, some last some don't.

I have had documents that were copied with a hot ink copier process that eventually all stuck together making the documents totally useless.

it is an unfortunate aspect of modern times with it's preocupation of removing anything slightly dangerous from our environment that ink ain't what it used to be.
Coupled with there being no need for an office printed page to last more than a couple of years, longevity is not modern man's priority.
Many modern inks fade in time with or without light upon it, some spread through the paper leaving a smear where they once were while some just falls off the paper.

Old fashioned ink use with a knibbed pen on good quality paper is the best most people can do.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I think any electronic means of long-term storage unsafe.
Properly cared for acid-free paper with a long-life water-based ink upon it will outlast everything electronic we now have or are likely to have.

Absolutely. The Chris half of JoceAnd Chris (computer geek, sorry Chris, whizz) says that anything electronic not being looked after and checked regularly will simply fade away. So after we die our blogs/ CD roms/ DVDs, if they have survived til then (unlikely), will die with us, just like our verbal stories.

I'm going shopping for acid free paper!

Many thanks for peoples' thought and contributions to this. And my original posting should have said Liberal gov in power, not Labour at that time.

 

[Craig]

For instance - how many people can still read 5.25 inch floppy discs - *the* storage medium of the 1908s?

Wow, those crazy Edwardians, much more advanced than I thought

However, you're right. I have CD Roms from c. 2000 that are now impossible to access.

Vinyl records will, I suspect, be very long lasting as they rely upon a physical impression and so if not knocked about, should last as long as your wax tablets.

I believe climate is a big issue though - friends who studied this kind of thing tell me there are virtually no ancient welsh manuscripts....

 

[Flyfisher]

I think you are all confusing the longevity of the medium rather than the data it contains. ANY medium WILL eventually fail, the only question is the timescale. However to preserve the DATA infinitely, all you need to do is make a perfect copy before the medium storing it fails.

Before the digital revolution, copying things was difficult, time-consuming and expensive - so it didn't get done and millions of texts, photos and movies have been lost. Since the digital revolution, copying things is easy, quick and cheap and there is no reason to ever lose such information, apart from carelessness or neglect.

I have, safely stored on my PC, old documents originally stored on 8-inch floppy disks, then 5-1/4" disks, then 3.5" diskettes, then ZIP disks, then CD-ROMS. All of these storage media are pretty much obsolete nowadays, but I still have my data. Similarly, I have digital copies of old family cine films, old betamax video recordings and old photographic negatives. My son seems to be particularly fond of playing my old Led Zeppelin 'LPs' on his iPod, even though he has never used a record player in his life. Think information, not medium.

An ancient book can be a thing of beauty in its own right, of course, but it is only the information it contains that can be guaranteed to be copied and thus preserved for future generations.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Good question. I remember watching the Blue Peter team burying a time capsule, with pride of place given to a 'laser disk' the size of an LP record. Someone's going to dig it up in fifty years time and wonder why we used such shiny place mats. As well as consideration of media, there is also the problem of where to keep it. I am trying to produce a paper record of all that we have discovered about our house, to be passed on to the next owner, but there's nothing stopping them dropping it in the bin as they move in. If I keep a copy myself, and leave it to my children, what will they do with it? Even giving it to the CO offers no guarantee that they will want, or be able to, keep it long term. It is easy to take for granted that people will care, but I have done a little Great War research and know of families where medals, letters and diaries were thrown away or sold by family members as soon as the recipient died.

Apparently a process similar to papyrus was used in Europe, but the damp climate caused it to decay. More successful was the use of vellum. Below is the earliest record of our village that I could find at the National Archive, dated to about 1200AD. View attachment 1
When we needed hardboard to stop the playroom carpet falling through the gaps between the floorboards, the chance was too good to miss.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

You murdered your children to stop the carpet falling through the gaps in the floor?

Seems a bit excessive, although probably understandable.

8)

 

[Jon Maine]

Judging by that outline of Matthew he rides far to many horses :lol:

 

[Lime]

I think you are all confusing the longevity of the medium rather than the data it contains. ANY medium WILL eventually fail, the only question is the timescale. However to preserve the DATA infinitely, all you need to do is make a perfect copy before the medium storing it fails.
Before the digital revolution, copying things was difficult, time-consuming and expensive - so it didn't get done and millions of texts, photos and movies have been lost. Since the digital revolution, copying things is easy, quick and cheap and there is no reason to ever lose such information, apart from carelessness or neglect.
I have, safely stored on my PC, old documents originally stored on 8-inch floppy disks, then 5-1/4" disks, then 3.5" diskettes, then ZIP disks, then CD-ROMS. All of these storage media are pretty much obsolete nowadays, but I still have my data. Similarly, I have digital copies of old family cine films, old betamax video recordings and old photographic negatives. My son seems to be particularly fond of playing my old Led Zeppelin 'LPs' on his iPod, even though he has never used a record player in his life. Think information, not medium.
An ancient book can be a thing of beauty in its own right, of course, but it is only the information it contains that can be guaranteed to be copied and thus preserved for future generations.

I don't think there is much confusion.
The medium is all important because the data it holds is lost if the medium fails.
Constant rejuvenation of the data is not what archived data is about and every rejuvenation will also create errors and degradation of meaning and detail.

Also many people hold photographs as JPEG files unaware that that is not a good medium for archived images.

Far better to use photograph paper (with fade-proof inks) and pen and ink.

 

[Flyfisher]

The medium is all important because the data it holds is lost if the medium fails.

But the medium WILL eventually fail. Any medium. Once that is understood then it's clear that long term preservation of information can only be achieved by regular copying. '"Regular" will, of course, depend on the likely lifetime of the medium. Multiple copies also provide inherent physical security of data.

Constant rejuvenation of the data is not what archived data is about and every rejuvenation will also create errors and degradation of meaning and detail.

No, the key characteristic of digital data is precisely that it CAN be copied perfectly. If it couldn't then it would be a waste of time backing up computer systems and your bank account would soon become infested with data errors.

Also many people hold photographs as JPEG files unaware that that is not a good medium for archived images.

Jpegs might not be the highest resolution standard available but it has no effect on longevity. A jpeg file can be perfectly preserved forever by repeated copying onto whatever is the best storage medium of the day. Furthermore, that copying process can be automatic, so it doesn't require any effort, so it actually gets done.

Far better to use photograph paper (with fade-proof inks) and pen and ink.

The science of 'fade-proof' dyes and inks is pretty young, so I'm surprised at your confidence in them compared with a proven and guaranteed method for preserving data that would work forever. Perhaps you're only thinking of a few centuries?

Once upon a time, the answer to the classic question about what you would rescue from your burning house was typically 'photographs'. Well, all mine are safely preserved on multiple hard drives in multiple locations, so I won't be risking life and limb to save all my prints and albums from a fire - I'll just get them reprinted from the original data.

Having said all that, I agree with Dave Brigg that, ultimately, we entrust the preservation of all historical records (and, indeed, properties) to future generations. If they don't value them then anything can be lost or destroyed.

 

[skier-hughes]

Far better to use photograph paper (with fade-proof inks) and pen and ink.

Depends, you may have a fire and it's all gone, whereas digitally, if you upload to something like the BT vault, it is all saved away from home and you can reprint as neccessary.

Best bet is to use a variety of medium, and to check and update it regularly.

 

[Flyfisher]

if you upload to something like the BT vault, it is all saved away from home and you can reprint as neccessary.

Indeed - and how does BT guarantee to preserve that data? Multiple (and exact) copies on multiple hard drives - and over a period of a few years their hard drives will undoubtedly fail and be replaced with new ones, but the data remains in perfect condition. Same with any large data centre.

I'd bet that the PPUK website is no longer hosted on the same physical media as when it was first started, yet it's still here in all its pristine glory.

 

[Moo]

A question:

Having taken on board the necessity of copying data stored on CDs and DVDs regularly, can anyone tell me if there's a quicker way of doing it than putting the disc into the slot, downloading it to the desktop, removing the disc, putting in a blank disc, and copying the data to it?
Not too much of a chore if I just want to make a copy for a chum, but when I contemplate the number of discs and therefore the time involved, I know that I'd get a bad attack of procrastination.....


and - how often should it be done?

 

[skier-hughes]

have two drives, at least one that can record and one that reads, so you put the data disc in the reading drive and the blank disc in the recording drive and copy.
Also, best to use disc verification, most recording programmes have it, so after burning it checks the data against the original to ensure it has burned ok.

 

[Flyfisher]

Personally, I gave up backing up (copying) my 'stuff' to CDs and DVDs years ago, precisely for the reasons Moo mentioned - it takes time, it takes effort and also it can't be automated, therefore it doesn't get done often enough. Out of date backups are the biggest risk people take with their data and it usually happens because their chosen method is cumbersome, so they don't do it regularly.

I use separate hard drives for all my backups. They are fast, cheap (about £50/500GB = 7p for the space of a CD and 45p for the space of a DVD) and the process can be automated, so it doesn't get forgotten. Some backup software will duplicate a file as soon as it has changed, so the chance of losing a file because of a single hard drive failure can be completely eliminated.

Of course, the value you place on a backup regime will depend on the value, to you, of your data. The best way to judge this is to consider how upset you would be if you switch on your PC tomorrow morning and nothing happens because the hard drive has completely failed and you've lost absolutely everything stored on it. Forever. It will happen one day.

 

[Moo]

have two drives, at least one that can record and one that reads,

As far as I know, my computer can read and record, but not at the same time, so I need another drive. But how do I get one, and (most important) how much would it cost?