stair newel and balistrails - updated with progress

[davidbrac]

Hi first post here as l am looking for information that will help me restore our staircase in a 1864 built property
There is some movement in the newel which l want to sort out but l am not sure how the bottom of the newel was fixed, it will either been a spike that is nailed in or a thread mechanism. I don't think it will be a thread as in 1860's threads were not common practise. However it is impossible to get into the underneath. I was thinking of chiselling out some wood around the newel and filling with epoxy resin to make the joint stronger. Anyone have any other ideas?

There is a broken balistrails , it is broken where it fits to the mahogany hand rail, it is a bent pin that hooks into a metal plate that rebates into the handrail (see photo) l am trying to come up with ways to repair this without removing the whole hand rail as it is bound to get damaged if l do.

any pointers to information or ideas would be appreciated.

The first stair lift to half landing

Newel

Newel into wooden bullnose step

3rd photo balistrails fixing into handrail

4th photo broken balistrails

 

[LadyArowana]

Just bumping this up the list.

 

[Penners]

Welcome, David.

Is there any possibility that you could get some kind of a look at the underside of the first tread? That would seem to be the best way of discovering exactly how those newel posts have been fitted into it and secured. I don't suppose there's a basement, or some cellar steps underneath the main staircase, is there?

If it's only an under-stairs cupboard, then maybe you could work out some way of using a torch and a mirror to inspect the underside of the tread - or perhaps you could slide your mobile phone underneath and take a picture?

However it's done, I really think you need to get a look under that tread.

 

[davidbrac]

Welcome, David.

Is there any possibility that you could get some kind of a look at the underside of the first tread? That would seem to be the best way of discovering exactly how those newel posts have been fitted into it and secured. I don't suppose there's a basement, or some cellar steps underneath the main staircase, is there?

If it's only an under-stairs cupboard, then maybe you could work out some way of using a torch and a mirror to inspect the underside of the tread - or perhaps you could slide your mobile phone underneath and take a picture?

However it's done, I really think you need to get a look under that tread.

Think your right and l will be breaking into the under stairs later in the week. There is no cellar however it rests on floorboards with a support wall underneath so far l haven't been able to see anything cause of the wall but the phone is a great idea.

Thanks

 

[steveb]

or google "USB SNAKE CAMERA" and spend a tenner on some cheap imported junk that looks like it only should have cost a pound - however it might come in handy if you can't find a hole big enough for your phone

I got one that was useful exactly once, but it probably paid for itself tenfold then and I still have it in a drawer somewhere

 

[davidbrac]

started the exploration of the stairs today, decided to explore under the stairs. First job was to remove the back plasterboard and l found another wall. However started to remove the lime plaster, bricks, and slate that the outside string was supported on and found the end or the balistrails. Little time with Di pulling it and me tapping from underneath and out it popped. It was fixed with two small wedges.

Now need to figure out the hook that is broken off and find some to braze a new piece on.

 

[davidbrac]

drilled the top of the newel and balistrail and threaded so l could use M5 bolts to refixed. Found that a balistrail near the newel had been repaired before and the wedges were not great so replaced these with wedges made from oak and also used epoxy resin.
Now l am just sanding the whole stairs, am l glad that l have a festool RO90 sander and extractor

 

[Penners]

Glad to hear that you're making progress, David.

When you feel that you have the time and inclination, I reckon those wonderful balusters would benefit enormously from having their many years of treacly paint stripped off (chemically) and a good repaint.

 

[davidbrac]

Glad to hear that you're making progress, David.

When you feel that you have the time and inclination, I reckon those wonderful balusters would benefit enormously from having their many years of treacly paint stripped off (chemically) and a good repaint.

I have just started wire brushing them and they aren't in that big a state the black paint is peeling off. Just started a discussion with Di asking her if black is the right colour. Another talking point is what sort of paint do we use for them?

 

[plasticpigeon]

Peelaway is really good for getting paint out of intricate things, and it worked a treat on my cast iron cupboard handles. It saves the dust from wire brushing too.

 

[Penners]

The downside of wire brushing (apart from the hard work!) is that it won't get the build-up of paint out of the deeper creases and folds in the mouldings. A chemical stripper such as Peelaway or Klingstrip will do so.

For repainting, you could use ordinary gloss oil paint or something like Smoothrite. Colour? Well, that's down to your taste, but personally I would choose black or a broken white - probably the latter.

 

[Toby Newell]

What a fantastic handrail.

As you can see, metal fixings were usually dry fixed into wood and filled with molten lead into stone, modern epoxies do the job just as well.

A peel away stripper (cover with plastic and keep moist with a spray mister) will save you hours on the banister sticks (and also save you tens of pounds in Festool abrasives)

Most of the several hundred such staircases I have seen in my professional life have been painted black or left bare cast iron (as originally, being cast iron maybe they were left unpainted and either waxed or coated with a graphite based polish like zebo/zebra polish/zebrite etc or similar like oven grates/hearths) but metalwork is not my area of expertise, you would have to research at your local library to find out what was the most popular colour/finish of the period, either looks good, although black is more common for metal and white for wood.

Toby

 

[davidbrac]

What a fantastic handrail.

As you can see, metal fixings were usually dry fixed into wood and filled with molten lead into stone, modern epoxies do the job just as well.

A peel away stripper (cover with plastic and keep moist with a spray mister) will save you hours on the banister sticks (and also save you tens of pounds in Festool abrasives)

Most of the several hundred such staircases I have seen in my professional life have been painted black or left bare cast iron (as originally, being cast iron maybe they were left unpainted and either waxed or coated with a graphite based polish like zebo/zebra polish/zebrite etc or similar like oven grates/hearths) but metalwork is not my area of expertise, you would have to research at your local library to find out what was the most popular colour/finish of the period, either looks good, although black is more common for metal and white for wood.

Toby

Toby


Toby, its now stripped and painted. In doing it l found the primer was like a filler and the stripper did not touch it so l washed it all down and painted on top of it. It looks like the original colour was a wedgewood blue and then changed to black. The black hid the detail of it all so we have gone back to a similar colour. Its a bit of a trial but l just wanted to change from black. W are lucky enough to have a local museum 100 yds away from the house and although they specialise in the prehistoric monuments and historical sites, their library has a small amount of information on the village in 1800-1900's and seemingly there is a paper article that the metalwork in Estate House was painted black when Prince Albert died. So there maybe a link there.

I was going to post a photo when the hall and landing were finished and carpet laid but that's a few weeks away, as l have been side-tracked with a floor joist that a previous worker has destroyed the support pad to knock a central heating pipe through :shock: So here are some in-progress photos.

PS
I now use mirka abranet sandpaper instead of festool, with a interface pad. My thoughts are its cheaper, very good wear, and the interface pad protects your sander backing pads

 

[LadyArowana]

Well done, I like it better than the black, which was rather like "outside" railings. Good luck with the rest of the project.

 

[Penners]

I like it better than the black

Me too. Very nice.

 

[Toby Newell]

I am voted down!

I prefer black. Fantastic work you are doing there.

Abranet. Tried once. Didnt use interface pad :/ destroyed my velcro backing pad. Not good. Anything ischeaper than Festool abrasives... Gold... diamonds...

 

[plasticpigeon]

That blue with mahogany is a great combination in my humble opinion, but they are such lovely balusters, that I'm sure they would also look great in black or many other colours!

 

[Penners]

I am voted down!

De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

[davidbrac]

Its been a busy day keeping out the way of carpet fitters, so now its the next couple of days sorting out furniture in three bedrooms, the dinning room, and landing.
The flash photography colour match is a bit out.

 

[Penners]

The flash photography colour match is a bit out.

...not to mention the spelling. :wink:

That staircase looks wonderful, David.