St Pancras

[Nemesis]

Well maybe you don't sign the Act, maybe you sign to say you will be bound by it.

 

[Penners]

I also saw a report that the Waterloo Eurostar platforms are to be mothballed, despite a platform shortage for the region, because they need too much work doing to them to make them suitable for normal use. Unfortunately the article did not expand on the reasons. The platforms looked perfectly OK to me last time I used them. Are they a different height to normal platforms or something?

Does anyone know the answer to this? Are Eurostar platforms different from ordinary ones, for some reason?

Come to that, does Eurostar run on the same gauge as our ordinary UK trains? As it used to run on older track, I presume it must....?

 

[Nemesis]

http://stpancras.eurostar.com/en-gb/why-we-moving



5. Why not keep Waterloo International open as well?

We thought long and hard about this one but eventually decided it would be too confusing, costly and complex to keep Waterloo International open. There would be potential issues over different timetables, as well as high costs of running and maintaining a second terminal and depot.

Waterloo station can return to serving domestic travellers in even greater numbers because of the extra space available once Eurostar moves.

 

[Ian Millington]

To use the Eurostar platforms at Waterloo it is going to take a complete redesign of the track layout (lines are seperate from domestic ones) and the installation of signals on those lines (Eurostar trains use in cab signals not trackside ones).

 

[Nemesis]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-10-29b.159194.h

 

[Penners]

Options for the medium to long term use of the platforms are being assessed by officials and Network Rail as part of a wider strategy for the upgrade of Waterloo Station

Or, in layman's language, everybody's doing nothing, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

 

[Nemesis]

They'll get round to it, it just takes time.

More important things to spend cash on, see bottom two items here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documents/4244_EstatesAnticipatedTenderProgramme.pdf

 

[Penners]

They'll get round to it, it just takes time. More important things to spend cash on

I don't doubt that. And I don't really have a problem with its taking time. I just have a problem with politicians' doublespeak.

 

[Nemesis]

Look, Span Four is going to be done and soon.

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=426&storycode=3071753

St Pancs re-opened this week.

They have the priorities right!

 

[Flyfisher]

More important things to spend cash on, see bottom two items here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documents/4244_EstatesAnticipatedTenderProgramme.pdf

Well, they could have funded all those items, and much more, if they hadn't spent £800m relocating a perfectly good Eurostar terminus less than 3 miles across London.

 

[Nemesis]

Always the site little ray of sunshine, eh?

They are funding Span Four however... rather than demolish for office blocks...and Waterloo will be used for domestic services, and one of the finest buildings and structures of the 19th century has been restored and put back in use.

 

[DaveBrigg]

I hate to be a spoilsport (hmmm), but that one's a myth (unless you can imagine Her Maj lying flat on her back, arms tucked in close, in a little capsule, whistling through a very small-diameter tunnel)
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/p/post_office_railway/index.shtml

:?
Hmmm. The story about Royals travelling underground came from someone with responsibility for supervising and inspecting underground work at Paddington (under the ground, rather than just London Underground). Princess Anne was mentioned as the main user, since she had daily commitments in London, and her car was not allowed to stop in traffic because of the security risk.
However, I hesitate to cast doubt Gareth's expert opinion. Is there a 'Royal Family on the train' website somewhere?

 

[Nemesis]

Penrith to the continong - who would have thought it?

http://www.politics.co.uk/press-releases/opinion-former-index/transport/virgin-trains-announces-fares-continent-from-carlisle-and-other-cumbrian-stations-$480415.htm



Not my great uncle Jim, who used to take the horse and cart into Penrith every market day to sell his eggs.

 

[Nemesis]

As far as HRH's etc go, this is interesting:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article584503.ece

However:

http://london.fridaycities.com/knowledge/places/conversations/257


http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Article862.html


http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=237184

 

[Flyfisher]

Always the site little ray of sunshine, eh?

They are funding Span Four however... rather than demolish for office blocks...and Waterloo will be used for domestic services, and one of the finest buildings and structures of the 19th century has been restored and put back in use.

All good stuff, I agree, but I think it's fair to question whether it needed to have cost £800m, most of which, it seems, was spent on relocating a perfectly good Eurostar terminus 3 miles up the road.

Why could they not just keep Waterloo as the Eurostar terminus but still do the restoration work? Indeed the savings could have funded even more more restoration work. Is 20 minutes off the time to Paris really worth this sort of money?

It's as if nothing can be done without a 'big vision' as an excuse, where the big vision itself isn't really necessary and costs far more than the lauded spin-offs. A bit like the 2012 Olympics that will supposedly 're-generate' east London.

 

[Nemesis]

What would you have had them do with St Pancs then?

 

[Flyfisher]

Er, how about restoring it and using it as a railway station - or is it only suitable for trains to Europe?

 

[Nemesis]

To where? It was in serious decline for domestic services. The hotel has been closed for decades.

Making it a major Euro destination will bring in a great deal of revenue which a domestic station wouldn't.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7070724.stm


The longer platfoms left at Waterloo will be useful also, for longer trains - it's something Network Rail is looking at at other stations - no use having more carriages if stations along the route can't take them.

There's a great deal of work going to be carried out on the rail network over the next few years - apart from Crossrail and extended Thamelink of course.

 

[Flyfisher]

To where? It was in serious decline for domestic services

I thought domestic rail travel was supposed to be growing, not declining.

Making it a major Euro destination will bring in a great deal of revenue which a domestic station wouldn't.

It's just swapping one domestic station for another; the overall revenue generated for the country won't change will it?

 

[Nemesis]

I think a huge pot of cash would have had to be spent on restoraton of the Barlow shed, and updating the station. Making it an international destination, increasing the number of trains which will run, expanding passenger numbers, and using a great deal of the space for commercial use will bring in rather more than if it was still a domestic line. The old Burton Brewery undercroft is 'fresh' space which wasn't available at Waterloo.

http://www.urban75.org/london/st_pancras1.html

A domestic station I doubt would have meant the restoration of the spectacular and increasingly derelict GG Scott Hotel:

http://www.urban75.org/london/st-pancras-photos.html

http://www.urban75.org/london/thumbs.html


http://www.urban75.org/vista/st_pancras1.html



There are already two 'domestic' stations in the vicinity - Euston and Kings Cross - which take rail traffic from the north now. Long gone are the days when each railway company required its own station. Both are due major updates, and the ghastly clutter on the front of Kings Cross is to be removed at last.

Waterloo can be expanded for traffic from the south.

But I'm sure some googling will bring you all manner of new and interesting information. Many books available on the history of the railways - I'm currently reading Christian Wolmar's new 'Fire and Steam'. Recommended.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/10/10/history_stpancras_feature.shtml

http://www.stpancras.com/default.aspx