something scarey in the roof

[Nemesis]

If this is historic thatch - then no, don't remove it. It needs to be at least recorded.

Sorry, but if thatch is now so rare in Ireland then it's clearly quite important that it isn't destroyed. If it's covered in tin then possibly it can astay that way for a while longer.

 

[Tom]

Charlie, reading through your posts and trying to put myself in your shoes and feel your anxiety, I would reccommend moving away from this thatching issue for a while and do something else. It sounds to me like this issue is causing you a great deal of stress (quite understandable!) and is in real danger of spoiling your enjoying of owning a period property. Of course it's scary and your brave to admit it but the more you work on your property the more confident you'll get. Leave it alone and do something more positive for a while. It'll help to change your mood and lower your stress levels, giving you a fresh start to re-assess the thatch later on. Like others have said, unless it's in danger of immediate collapse, there's no urgency about this and certainly no need to be putting yourself through the grinder! The spiral you've got yourself into is, in itself, increasing your anxiety while the problem with the thatch remains as it is. Leave it alone for now and move on. Enjoy what's left of the summer doing positive things on your property. Hope this helps.

Jaqy

 

[Nemesis]

It seems to me also that if it was me I'd consider the thatch a great find and an asset. If it's got tin on top it's probably all OK at the minute.

However - listing is very different in Ireland, it's worth doing some gentle investigation.

And consider that listed properties here fetch a premium - this could end up as making the house more valuable!

I also wonder if the thatched part is the oldest part of the house?

You think that the house has had its roof raised - maybe it was all once single storey and thatched?

It strikes me you've bought one house and found a far more historic one than you thought. Be thankful and go slowly!

 

[Penners]

Charlie, reading through your posts and trying to put myself in your shoes and feel your anxiety, I would reccommend moving away from this thatching issue for a while and do something else.

I agree with Jaqy. If the roof is watertight, and isn't in imminent danger of collapse, then I should concentrate on one or two other weather-proofing jobs for a while.

It'll still be there for you to come back to. Won't it?! :wink:

 

[NT]

I've always found getting real is the solution to irrational fears, and am glad to see thats whats happened here.


NT

 

[gsport george]

WHat makes you think it may have been a turf roof before it was thatch? Are there other turf roofs in the area?

If the turf pre-dates the thatch then that might be a good option to aim for since it should be a lot more suitable for doing it yourself.


If the roof has passed your survey fairly recently and isnt showing any obvious signs of collapse then I should leave it alone for now... If it does collapse you will be able to claim it on buildings insurance presumably?

 

[Nemesis]

Thatch was at times laid on a bed of turf - may have been the case here.

 

[MdB]

Thatch was at times laid on a bed of turf - may have been the case here.

Why would have that been done? Seems rather strange to me but I'm sure there is a good reason.

 

[Nemesis]

I think we tend to think of thatch as being something simple - it wasn't and it had many regional variations.

http://www.orkney.gov.uk/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1355

There is a byre at Gears in St Andrews parish which has three different types of thatch in the one roof. One end is a needled roof; at the other end is thatch on top of flagstone; whilst the middle section is thatch laid on divots of turf which is supported on laths. The middle section of this listed building collapsed last year. The laths are usually broader or there are more laths than would be found in a needled roof. Other examples of turf, or divots, used as the base layer for a thatched roof have been identified in mainland Orkney and Hoy, but may have been widely distributed at one time.


http://www.nhtg.org.uk/heritageSkills_thatch.asp

It was certainly common with heather thatch - possibly to give more weather protection, and make a solid base.

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/arch1878/rpt.htm

There's an interesting article here about thatching Causeway House:

http://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/news/documents/LO-RES_1.pdf


http://thatch.org/glossary.htm

Buildings insurance - usually you can only claim for something like storm damage - not wear and tear.

 

[Tom]

If the roof has passed your survey fairly recently and isnt showing any obvious signs of collapse then I should leave it alone for now... If it does collapse you will be able to claim it on buildings insurance presumably?

I doubt it, since the OP said that it wasn't insured as a thatched roof. The insurance will probably not pay out and will void the insurance as soon as they find out!

Jaqy

 

[MdB]

There's an interesting article here about thatching Causeway House:

http://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/news/documents/LO-RES_1.pdf

Very interesting. Especially the turf ridge. Thanks for that.

 

[Penners]

If the roof has passed your survey fairly recently and isnt showing any obvious signs of collapse then I should leave it alone for now... If it does collapse you will be able to claim it on buildings insurance presumably?

I doubt it, since the OP said that it wasn't insured as a thatched roof. The insurance will probably not pay out and will void the insurance as soon as they find out!

Jaqy

Not sure about the insurance being declared void, but they certainly wouldn't pay out for natural long-term deterioration of the roof, leading to collapse. Insurance is for accidental damage, not wear and tear.

 

[charlie-ia]

im confused about turf. the locals call peat turf.

the inner layer of the roof is black and muddy with clods of Sphagnum moss. once long ago it was clearly fresh off the bog (now protected -hurrah!)

wether they put fresh mud on wattle and daub style, or as sods, or used the peat in slabs i dont know. peat is only partially rotted moss etc anyway, so i guess it would all look the same by now.

natural peat dries very hard, and waterproof. not at all like the stuff you buy in gardencentres. i bet its great stuff to make a roof from.

the thatch itself, i am guessing is "long straw" as we can see plenty of empty ears of corn.

the surveyor completely failed to notice that there was a thatch roof at all.
it is in a pretty bad way. i dont think its a great danger to us, but the room is very damp. hard to increase the ventilation, cement floor.

an area of the thatch at one end is very crumbly (perhaps partly due to rats/rot), and the end of the beam isnt touching the wall. it sags about a foot. other beams have severly rotted ends, at least one other isnt touching the wall due to rot and worm. having said that, it does seem to be holding itself up quite happily and there is plenty of reasonable looking wood. im not as worried as i might be, but thanks for the kind words of support! (will admit to being inexperienced - this will be only our second week of hands on work and id never seen a thatch roof up close before)

i am though, open to suggestion about how to stop it getting any worse in the meantime. if you bang around in there too much, bits of the thatch in the bad corner trickle down ( its just 1/2" bits of straw- wont hurt if a whole load dropped on you)
sometime soon we're going to have to put a new lintle/lintol/lintel in the window of that room (very small window, hence not much ventilation) and perhaps re-open the newly cemented closed fireplace.

 

[NT]

Lintels are not normally necessary for small openings. Theyre more insurance than basic support. There are still many buildings about with none.


NT

 

[Nemesis]

In Ireland there's whiskey and Guinness.

Go have both and cease to worry. It all sounds lovely and don't rush it.

Just treat it gently and think what a great place you have bought, with so much history to uncover!

 

[Penners]

beams have severly rotted ends.

If it's only the ends of the beams that are rotten, you should be able to bolt on new pieces of timber on each side (so that the rotten bit ends up as the ham in the sandwich) that take over the job of bearing on the wall, in order to stabilise the whole structure.

Obviously the two new bits of timber (the "bread") must extend well back from the rotten end, so that you bolt through good wood. And if you have any concerns about active rot or infestation in the rotten wood, it's best to cut it right out.

As a short-to-medium term measure to catch the falling bits of thatch, you could tack some cheap muslin to the undersides of the rafters. Don't use polythene, though, as this won't breathe.