Solar water heater

[Juju]

I don't know what the answer is. All the arguments do my head in. I'm not convinced by people who say we shouldn't bother though... But the bottom line is people take too many plastic bags! I used to see my sister-in-law come home from the supermarket with about 10 bags, all of which she threw in the dustbin.... So she was probably doing that a few times a week. I very rarely take bags from supermarkets or other shops - everything gets piled in an old rucksack and other canvas bags. And what really irritates me is supermarkets which have a 'recycle your plastic bags here'. What's that all about? People go to the supermarket, give in their old ones and take new ones? I guess it's supposed to be a facility for people who've reused their bags to the end of their life and are then disposing of them responsibily? But as others have said, the modern supermarket bags only last about two uses before falling apart.

I spent time in the former East Germany - they never gave you plastic shopping bags! Not that they were being 'green', they just didn't believe in wasting resources on them. I didn't realise the first time I went to a supermarket and had to carry my shopping home in my arms! I seem to recall dropping all the yogurts on the way...

 

[skier-hughes]

Once you have re-used them at least once though, what do you do with them?

They go to landfill, but if it wasn't that carrier bag it'd be a purpose bought plastic bag, how else do I pick up the dog mess?

 

[Nemesis]

So you use an entire carrier bag (non-degradable presumably?) to pick up the (degradable) doggy doo, and put it in landfill?

Such an ethical and ecological dilemma.

Well, that's the most cogent argument I have heard yet then for supermarkets giving away unlimited amounts of free plastic carrier bags.

 

[skier-hughes]

So you'd rather I left it for people to tread on, make kids go blind.......... Good arguement on your side, yes, see where you're going.

You have to pick up dog mess, it's the law, so I have to use something and it's a plastic bag, so I either buy one and use it once, or use a carrier bag that's been used more than once...... I don't know, but I see my way of doing it as more ecologically sound.

 

[Philip_I]

Perhaps you should buy some of these:

http://www.dgrade.co.uk/?gclid=CK3NrbHospMCFQKIlAodunvZng

 

[Nemesis]

Or a cork?

 

[Flyfisher]

This thread is a perfect illustration of my original point.

Clearly, plastic bags are a topic more worthy of discussion than a technology that could probably save around 50% of domestic fossil fuel consumption.

 

[Nemesis]

But you raised the subject of plastic bags...

I raised the subject of solar panels. Graham raised... well, never mind.

Can't think there's much to discuss really, apart from I'm still interested in those brown carriers bags?

As I said - clearly we prostrate our humble minds before your great one, oh master. We are not worthy etc etc. We suggest you should take over the universe.

 

[skier-hughes]

It is isn't it, more chat on plastic bags than than solar power.............

 

[Nemesis]

I wonder if we could harness dog turds to power up the country?

 

[skier-hughes]

Yes quite easily to help power the country, but I doubt we have enough to power all of the country.

 

[Nemesis]

As seen I recall on a recent Grand Designs:

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3113623&c=2

Clearly, many fresh solutions appearing at the moment.

 

[Pford75]

Back to the water heater....perhaps it's not terribly 'PC', but I happen to think they look awful and would be like a pustulent boil on the lovely slate roof which keeps me dry. I wouldn't insert a rooflight.....and these look very similar to me.

However, if the gov't is truly serious about these....why do they not alter the building regs to mandate that all new builds must incorporate one? As someone else pointed out, the cost is a drop in the ocean compared to the increased revenue from Land Duty on increased property prices.

But, you see...it's more important to be seen to be 'green' than actually being 'green'

 

[Nemesis]

Define 'green'...

 

[Lime]

Define 'green'...

That question is surely the nub of the problem?
IMO green is an ascending variety of choices between (at rock bottom) doing what you want with minimal regard of consequences to the environment and putting the environment first absolutely (an aspiration rather than a possibility).
...then there is the definition of environment too.
The difficulty in the definition of green is that all actions have consequences, some are able to be predicted but some are not.
To be green any action IMO has to have negligible consequences on the environment but it will always be a balance between the possible and the aspirational, the known and the unknown.

for instance, most of our present day landscape is the consequence of mankind's activities.
Is it right (green) to reinstate some areas to what what nature produced before man existed?
Any change will cause death and destruction to many wild flowers and animals won't it?
So is it green?

 

[Pford75]

Nemesis wrote:
Define 'green'...
That question is surely the nub of the problem?

My point exactly.

Some measure it in terms of CO2 emissions in use (how many MPG does your car do, how well insulated is your house)...others consider the environmental cost of producing the item (an old house is better than a new one......a land rover typically has a lower total lifetime cost etc.).....some consider the materials involved and how recycleable they are..(does it involve plastic...mercury/cadmium under the WEEE initiatives etc.)

So it's possible to describe almost anything as 'green' (see 'greenwash') : Plastic DG saves energy.....diesel fueled buses running at 10% occupancy are 'green'...etc....etc. and at the same time, people trying to do the right thing can be lambasted by the eco-mentalists as there is always an argument against whatever we do (short of living in cave).

That's why I believe so many people are more concerned with how they 'appear'....because it's very difficult in the current circumstances to be truly 'green'...since noone can define it! The 'good':'bad' equation no longer applies - plastic bags may be 'bad'...but paper bags are not neccessarily 'good'.....and the methods of measurement vary from one person to the next....

I think (it's only my personal opinion....so hold back on the sticks and stones)...that this is one reason that some of us are suffering what I call eco-fatigue

 

[Nemesis]

Not sure why the whole pic isn't showing, here's a link which has the entire sheet:


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n146/E-V-C/Finesse1.jpg



http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n146/E-V-C/Finesse2.jpg

That may go some way towards explaining why these things are now in just about every building in my area, replacing traditional and attractive timber ones.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Interestingly, there's nothing about "greenline" windows that I can find on that firm's own website, and googling for combinations of "finesse" and "greenline" comes up with little or nothing either.

Please tell me the advertising standards people took a very dim view.

 

[Nemesis]

I don't know - I did consider reporting this, but life the universe etc intervened and I didn't, but I also recall at the time it was sent out (with the Cumberland News I think, a while ago now) I looked at the website and found no mention there either.

I have to say as far as placcy windows go, the ones shown are in the better category, most round here are clunking ugly things with huge frames and rails etc, which yell out in brilliant white from the stone buildings and must cut down considerably on light.

"We are writing to express our thanks to the team at Finesse for carrying out such a quality installation that surpassed all our expectations. We were aware at the outset that the job would not be straightforward, the building being over 300 years old and in a very exposed situation on the coast. We began by seeking quotes and advice from a total of seven companies and can now say that we are delighted to have chosen Finesse.
Overall we are delighted with both the product and the service provided. We could not think of any way at all in which these could have been improved…"
Mr and Mrs P Watts, Skinburness.Following the installation of double-glazing.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Only one Listed Building in Skinburness so as long as the Watts' don't live there it's all fine...