Solar panels

[angrybird]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/solarpower/12092562/Solar-panel-malfunction-sparks-blaze-in-family-home.html

 

[skier-hughes]

Currently our local news is all about filling in your registration for new electrical items as a persons home burned down from a faulty tumble drier.
Let's face it, if it's electrical and faulty it may well cause a blaze!

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, that was my first thought. Unfortunate and very sad for the family concerned (though thankfully no one injured) but where there are electrical devices there must be some risk.

I do sometimes wonder about smoke alarms though, and whether they should be linked into the electrical system to switch off all power in the event of a fire. Many electrical problems cause plenty of smoke before a full-on fire.

 

[skier-hughes]

Good idea, let's make one

 

[Penners]

where there are electrical devices there must be some risk.

It's called Murphy's Law: what can go wrong will go wrong.

I do sometimes wonder about smoke alarms though, and whether they should be linked into the electrical system to switch off all power in the event of a fire. Many electrical problems cause plenty of smoke before a full-on fire.

That's an outstandingly good idea! I can't imagine why it hasn't been implemented already. I can only suppose it's because, when there are cooks like me in a house, the place would regularly be plunged into darkness.

 

[malcolm]

Not a bad idea. Our industrial fire alarm system is not RCD protected so tripping the RCD protected circuits in event of fire would be a reasonable thing to do. The alarm has battery backup so switching all circuits could be an idea, but it is very useful to have lighting to get dressed and escape from the house in the middle of the night.

Our system goes off about once a year, normally due to fire alarm sensor dwelling spiders. The one occasion where it went off for a good reason was an electrical fire - a cheap torch the other half had left charging had blown up it's batteries due to a mismatch between charger and battery despite the two having been supplied together. At 3:30am, properly practiced after the spider drills, I got dressed first then went downstairs to find flames that needed to be put out. A short time later when I was retiring to bed once more and leaving the other half to clear up the mess the battery powered smoke alarm 4m away went off - neither soon enough nor loud enough.

There is sense in a decent mains powered and linked alarm system with sensors near electrical stuff. Though I don't have a sensor in the loft even though there are some wires in there. Lighting wires are generally fairly safe in my experience so that ought hopefully to be OK.

 

[Flyfisher]

I do sometimes wonder about smoke alarms though, and whether they should be linked into the electrical system to switch off all power in the event of a fire. Many electrical problems cause plenty of smoke before a full-on fire.

That's an outstandingly good idea! I can't imagine why it hasn't been implemented already. I can only suppose it's because, when there are cooks like me in a house, the place would regularly be plunged into darkness.

You're right that nuisance tripping might cause more problems than such a thing would solve, though there is also the question of scale, i.e. rare but catastrophic compared with frequent but merely annoying.

I've only been pondering such things because I'm mindful that our smoke/fire alarm provision is somewhat inadequate and it's on my list to rectify fairly soon. Apart from ensuring adequate coverage, we have to also consider audibility since an alarm at one end of the house would not be heard at the other end. So we'll need interlinked alarms, but then have to consider additional wiring (with all the attendant issues) or wireless, all of which widens the choice and leads to 'analysis paralysis' . . . which is why our few existing alarms remain inadequate.

I've also been thinking of getting a couple of fire extinguishers and have been impressed by the modern 'water mist' models that are apparently perfectly safe on all types of fire, including oil and electrical ones, and don't leave a mess unlike powder or water ones (of lesser importance of course, but a useful consideration).
http://www.safelincs.co.uk/e-series-water-mist-fire-extinguishers/

Do many people bother with extinguishers?

 

[Penners]

that's A very useful tip, FF. I had never heard of those extinguishers. I must say, though, that some of the claims made for the water mist are extraordinary. Particles so fine that air can't pass them? And why aren't microscopic water particles simply vaporised by fire, before they can cool it below its flash point?

 

[Lime]

I do sometimes wonder about smoke alarms though, and whether they should be linked into the electrical system to switch off all power in the event of a fire. Many electrical problems cause plenty of smoke before a full-on fire.

How many fires are of electrical origin?
A balance has to be struck.
As with all "simple" good ideas they are fraught with unforeseen circumstances that may make a situation far worse.
52% of accidental fires are caused by cooking appliances such as fat pans being left on.
They may be cooking with gas.

The most common causes of death by fire (53%) are being overcome with fumes or smoke.
Without electric light a bad situation may be made far worse particularly at night.
In fire every second counts to escape with your life.
Gathering your family together prior to escape may be made much more difficult in the dark.

Electrical appliances account for 13% of accidental fires, electrical distribution 10% and space heaters 4%.


Additionally 32% of domestic fires are deliberate.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/36467/FSGB_2011_to_12.pdf

 

[malcolm]

I have CO2 extinguishers Flyfisher. Mess free and their condition can be checked by weighing them so you can keep them well past the replacement date if the weight is OK. The propellant in water filled extinguishers would be more tricky to check by weight.

 

[Lime]

Do many people bother with extinguishers?

I do together with escape ladders and emergency lights.
In the past, it has often caused me to doubt other peoples' sanity when they claim they have smoke alarms but then admit they don't have batteries in them.
I have 18 working smoke alarms.
Fire extinguishers in the house:- 16 CO2, 4 foam, 3 powder and 1 water, all commercial size.
(Also have 3 halon extinguishers that are worth a fortune now)

I was in a fire in my teens and understand how fast and terrifying it can become....and I put it out before the fire brigade arrived.

 

[Feltwell]

Apart from ensuring adequate coverage, we have to also consider audibility since an alarm at one end of the house would not be heard at the other end. So we'll need interlinked alarms, but then have to consider additional wiring (with all the attendant issues) or wireless, all of which widens the choice and leads to 'analysis paralysis' . . . which is why our few existing alarms remain inadequate.

I had the same concerns FF, but found that battery powered radio-linked smoke detectors are OK. I've never had cause to "test" them properly, luckily, but I can vouch that you press the test button on one and they all start going off within a few seconds.

These are the same brand as the ones I've got, I don't remember paying this much for them though and I don't remember the wireless link being "digital" (what difference would that make?). It was a long time ago!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ei-Electronics-Smartlink-Digital-Interconnection/dp/B006OX099Y

We've got a smoke alarm in the utility room, the hallway and the 2 landings, and a heat alarm in the kitchen. It's a long way from the utility room to the top floor of the house but they all go off OK.

Fire extinguishers - no, just one in the garage, an old one from a closing work premises. We've a fire blanket in the kitchen though, after a grill pan fire.

 

[mims&pip]

We had fire extinguishers at our last house - it was thatched - but don't have any here. We also had hard wired smoke alarms fitted throughout the various floors/levels as part of the full rewire which we will also do here.................if we decide to stay.

 

[Flyfisher]

that's A very useful tip, FF. I had never heard of those extinguishers. I must say, though, that some of the claims made for the water mist are extraordinary. Particles so fine that air can't pass them? And why aren't microscopic water particles simply vaporised by fire, before they can cool it below its flash point?

I would guess that the water particles are vaporised by the fire and the energy needed to do this is what cools the fire - given sufficient amounts of microscopic water particles.

I had also not heard of this type of extinguisher before last year when we renewed our home insurance and NFU insisted on a 'risk survey'. It didn't insist on any actions but did recommend considering a fire extinguisher and the water mist type was on the list of ones suitable for all types of fire, which surprised me at the time. Surprisingly, to me anyway, the report didn't recommend anything about smoke alarms even though we only currently have two

Lime's post has reinforced my feeling that I should be applying a bit more urgency to such matters. I wonder if the Fire Brigade still offers home visits and fire prevention advice surveys?

 

[wobs]

My ex nearly started a fire in our house many years ago, when she left a hair drier on all day. It had tripped or over heated, and had stopped working, so she left it switched on, and went to work. When I got home, I found the bedroom very very warm, with the hair drier going at full power.

Something like this:
http://what-if.xkcd.com/35/

As we had a re-wire two years ago, we have wired smoke alarms. I cannot imagine living in a house so big that two would be inadequate.

I also have a powder extinguisher and fire blanket in the kitchen. I may now look into a water-mist one. Looks interesting.

I'm now thinking about escape routes as well. Hmmmmm.

 

[skier-hughes]

I believe the fire brigade do.
Changing the idea now to smoke alarms fitted with an app to beep your phone to tell you where they are going off?

 

[88v8]

We have battery alarms, I use rechargeable PP3s, just bought a half dozen of these 600mAh lithium
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271979606750?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
which hopefully will last longer then the 350mAh NiCads. As I write there is a bleeping from the attic where I installed an alarm quite forgetting that without the ladder from the garage I would be unable to reach it to replace the battery.
And why do they always start bleeping at night. :x

Being thatched, we have a variety of extinguishers. The 2 gallon water are very bulky in our small cottage, and too heavy for the wife to manage anyway. Those mist extinguishers look the cat's pyjamas. I'll order a couple of 6ltr, they have the same 13A rating as a 2 gallon, then I can retire our lumbering dinosaurs.

Ivor

 

[Penners]

I wonder if the Fire Brigade still offers home visits and fire prevention advice surveys?

Here you go, FF:-

https://www.norfolkfireservice.gov.uk/nfrs/your-safety/safety-in-your-home/618-hfrcform

 

[Lime]

................
And why do they always start bleeping at night. :x


Ivor

Because they get cold.
I'm not sure if the semi-flat battery suddenly weakens in the cold or the alarm consumes more power.
I have never worked it out.
I keep a stock of batteries and replace them when any of my alarms bleep.
With so many I sometimes take a week to find which one it is!
The majority will start to bleep in September-October as the weather gets cooler.
Some of my alarms last for several years without bleeping whereas some for only a year particularly in the colder parts of the house.

I wouldn't use rechargeable batteries myself.
When they discharge the voltage falls off very, very quickly so there will be little power left to give any alarm if called upon to do so.

 

[Flyfisher]

I wonder if the Fire Brigade still offers home visits and fire prevention advice surveys?

Here you go, FF:-

https://www.norfolkfireservice.gov.uk/nfrs/your-safety/safety-in-your-home/618-hfrcform

Thanks for that - I've sent off the form and will let you know the outcome.