So here's the thing , how do i seal a kitchen work surface?

[Feltwell]

A kitchen fitter with over 40 years experience who we used to contract worktop fitting work out to absolutely swore by Cascamite for jointing worktops with. It's popular with boat builders as well I believe, which should be a good advert for it's ability to resist water!

A rather patronising guide on how to use Cascamite is below:-

http://www.technologystudent.com/joints/casca1.htm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B0001OZIA2/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

[Flyfisher]

In the mid-80s, I built a wooden canadian-style canoe using cascamite and it's still going strong. In fact it had an outing only last week.

Back, briefly, to the difference between old and new softwoods, I've recently been making changes to some stud-walls, removing bits of existing and adding bits of new. This photo shows the rather dramatic difference between the old and new 3x2-inch framing timbers. I'll let you guess which is which.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

In Victorian times, the pine kitchen table would have been scrubbed daily by the poor little Tweeney.... we don't seem to have any of those these days'

 

[MdB]

Back, briefly, to the difference between old and new softwoods, I've recently been making changes to some stud-walls, removing bits of existing and adding bits of new. This photo shows the rather dramatic difference between the old and new 3x2-inch framing timbers. I'll let you guess which is which.

Wow! That is quite a difference. :shock:

 

[robgil]

Back, briefly, to the difference between old and new softwoods, I've recently been making changes to some stud-walls, removing bits of existing and adding bits of new. This photo shows the rather dramatic difference between the old and new 3x2-inch framing timbers. I'll let you guess which is which.

Wow! That is quite a difference. :shock:

that really is , is it down to the kind of pine being imported (cheaper) or has all pine ended up as a quick grown tree these days?

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, I was very surprised. Even now I find it difficult to believe the closeness of the rings. They must surely be very different species but, even so, it shows the difference in timber quality being used 100-or-so years ago - even for 'rough-and-ready' invisible things like stud-walling - and timber used today.

 

[Onetap]

i was looking at kitchen work surfaces today and really cant find anything i like. I then looked at my rafters and hey presto i had an idea. A quick call to finbows and i found that i can buy untreated pine rafters 50mm x 200mm for very little money. Bingo.

They'll be fine, with some Formica stuck on them. ;-)

If the intention is to get a good worktop for little money and much time, the Americans use concrete kitchen worktops. It sounds strange, but they can look very good. Have a Google for "concrete countertops". They need to be sealed though; I don't know if any suitable sealants can be easily found in the UK.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Yes, I was very surprised. Even now I find it difficult to believe the closeness of the rings. They must surely be very different species but, even so, it shows the difference in timber quality being used 100-or-so years ago - even for 'rough-and-ready' invisible things like stud-walling - and timber used today.

It would be interesting to know the difference between these two examples from an engineering perspective. The newer timber must be much lighter than the old but presumably is less stiff. For an environmental point of view the new fast grown stuff must be good news given that its been guzzling carbon dioxide at an astonishing rate.

 

[Me!]

then does anybody have any victorian rafters going spare?

No, but this place did last time I was there if you do want some - http://www.kerrysreclamation.co.uk/where.htm

 

[Penners]

is it down to the kind of pine being imported (cheaper) or has all pine ended up as a quick grown tree these days?

The two samples shown in Flyfisher's photo are extremes of their kind. The difference may be the result of two factors: The species and the climate in which the tree has grown.

A substantial proportion of the softwood grown in Europe is Scots Pine (pinus sylvestris), sometimes called Scandinavian Redwood. If you planted three similar saplings of this tree in, say, Spain, Scotland and Finland, here's the length of time that they would each take to grow to typical harvesting girth (these figures can vary considerably, according to weather conditions during the tree's lifetime):

Spain (Mediterranean climate): 30 years
Scotland (temperate climate): 50 years
Finland (cold climate): 80 - 100 years

The growth rings of the tree consist of two bands - the soft spring growth (lighter in colour) and the harder late-year growth (the darker part of the ring). It is this late-year growth that is heavily impregnated with lignin, which gives the tree its strength and rigidity.

So, as you can see, the colder the climate, the slower the growth, the more the growth rings, the better the timber.

There are many varieties of softwood imported nowadays, from all over the world. These include a number of species that aren't actually pine at all - spruce, for example. And the width of the growth rings varies widely between these species - not necessarily indicating their comparative strengths. Douglas Fir, for example, can have very wide growth rings, but is a very strong timber with good resistance to decay.

If you want good softwood, robgil, I have yet to find a better quality than Ridgeon's premium grade (which is actually "unsorted" grade - the best Scandinavian). Some of the worst that I've seen comes from certain well-known DIY stores. Unless, that is, you're looking for CLS studs - bee and koo do some reasonable quality ones at a good price, provided you're prepared to sort through the pile, to eliminate "bananas".

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Penners - thanks for that comprehensive and interesting post. I've picked up from previous posts that you are a bit of a pine buff.

I think I must be more suited to a Spanish climate, as at the age of 37 I have already reached "harvesting girth" according to Mrs W!

 

[Flyfisher]

Just to follow on from Penners' informative post, the wide-ringed timber in my photo was, indeed, CLS grade wood (from Jewsons) with all the appropriate printing along each side. So it's not just 'cheap -and-nasty' wood (well, it is, I suppose) but it's specifically graded for a particular building purpose. Not the sort of stuff to make fine furniture from though.

 

[Penners]

Penners - I've picked up from previous posts that you are a bit of a pine buff.

I suppose that depends on the definition of "buff". If you're referring to today's youf-speak, then I think you'll find that Mrs P regards me in much the same light that Mrs W does your good self.

Buff? Unequivocally not.

However, I did spend over 25 years in the furniture industry, manufacturing stuff made out of pine and other timbers, and was - among other things - the timber buyer for much of that time.

 

[Penners]

it's not just 'cheap -and-nasty' wood (well, it is, I suppose)

Perhaps it's more a case of "horses for courses". All you need from a stud is that it will cut and fix easily, and be sufficiently rigid and durable to do the job for which it's intended. So you don't buy high quality, slow-grown Scots Pine for that application.

Just as you don't polish your shoes with the finest silk*.




*Unless you're Joce. I bet she does - with silk colour-coded to the shoes in question . :wink:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Perhaps it's more a case of "horses for courses". All you need from a stud is that it will cut and fix easily, and be sufficiently rigid and durable to do the job for which it's intended.

Are we still talking horses here, or another kind of stud? :shock:

 

[Penners]

I'm trying to think of a witty reply to that one, FW.

I'll be back around about Tuesday afternoon. :roll:

 

[sidd]

This seems to me mostly done now, but for what it's worth:

Glue: Gorilla glue is great stuff, but I wouldn't use it for a worktop. Titebond is just as strong and doesn't foam everywhere. Also you can get it in different shades, so it is less obvious in the finished article.

Sealing: If I really had to use pine as a worktop, I would experiment first with some Osmo thin oil as a first layer and then the normal stuff. Osmo seeps in and hardens the wood. Normally you only use the thin oil on harder woods that don't have big pores. But in this case you really want it to harden a lot more. Otherwise I will second the vote for Liberon finishing oil. It works differently to Osmo, and looks nicer but needs more maintenance as it is not as durable. But make sure whatever you do, it is not Linseed. For a worktop, you need to seal against stains, and Linseed will not do that.

 

[skier-hughes]

But make sure whatever you do, it is not Linseed. For a worktop, you need to seal against stains, and Linseed will not do that.

My very old oak table has linseed once a year and has no stains, my temp, well now about 8 months old plywood worktop has no stains and as it was temp we've not been too careful, adn it's been used quite well in that time.

 

[Flyfisher]

Sounds like your 'temporary' worktop might be slipping into permanence. :wink:

That's something I worry about here whereby I finish a few jobs, become quite pleased with myself and then become quite oblivious of the fact that part of a fallen-down ceiling still needs repair, or that some of the walls are still stripped of their cement/gypsum that was removed two years ago to let them dry out. It's only when I get strange looks from visitors that I'm jolted back to realising that most 'normal' people tend not to live in the midst of such decrepitude. I'm working on it, but it's deceptively easy to 'relax into' such an environment.

 

[sidd]

But make sure whatever you do, it is not Linseed. For a worktop, you need to seal against stains, and Linseed will not do that.

My very old oak table has linseed once a year and has no stains, my temp, well now about 8 months old plywood worktop has no stains and as it was temp we've not been too careful, adn it's been used quite well in that time.

OK. Maybe I generalised. Linseed is less stain resistant than some finishes.

I would dearly love to have used more Linseed in our house. Some friends did their new oak floors throughout in Linseed. Widths were random up to about 330mm. Cut clasp face nailing. It is gorgeous. But I know what my family is like, and I have seen stains on such finishes. Plus to do a good job from scratch needs a lot of coats with drying time, turps and pumice powder. A worktop is smaller I know, but it still takes a lot of maintenance and drying.

In fact, our Liberon-finished Walnut kitchen worktop is now on it's second refinishing, after stains burns and bumps. And someone managed to make a big scratch in it on the first day it was ready after I resanded and gave it six coats. I went ballistic, but hopefully, now the family is better at looking after things.