Small Historic Towns and Villages

[Cloudscape]

I took a planner to task and asked them why so much of the post-war housing (including current builds) that's grafted onto old towns and villages is... nasty. Visually, I mean.

I was told it can't be helped if the newer houses aren't to my taste. :roll: I suppose he's right. Some people seem to love the new builds.

I also asked who decides that large estates get built around historic towns and villages... what they expect to happen, socially speaking. Apparently planners are not allowed to consider any form of social planning.

I pointed out that there is sometimes a major social impact on a town or village. He wasn't willing to discuss it, and it made me think long and hard about evolving villages... pretty much the way I'm thinking about evolving historic buildings.

I have heard that in some areas, you have to build in certain bricks or stone, not exceed a set height, have a slate roof with gables... that sort of thing.

In many many places, the stable door is open and the horse has bolted. I can think of somewhere very historic where recent builds look 1970s, and current builds look 80s. It's setting up a 'them' in the newer houses and an 'us' in the older houses.

I'm not drawing any conclusions. But I'm always disappointed when new builds underachieve (even for the budget) and look frumpy. To me, building something new is a chance to 'get it right' or 'do better'.

So many places don't have a real bus service (but used to have trains before they were axed :wink.

Village shops close down, stranding people.

Some councils are very weak, or the local politics is more complex than it at first appears.

Maybe we all just live online - in cyberspace - and the environment is irrelevant. :wink:

 

[Nemesis]

No, I think our environment is important. However, in general planners have less scope than is realised regarding development, and most rubbish building is the fault of those wishing to build and their designers.

New buildings affecting the setting of a listed building, and also new build in Conservation Areas, have some wider considerations, such as materials, but in general planning considerations aren't much to do with design, sadly.

 

[JMartin]

I live in a conservation village that had all but been deserted a few years ago. There was no shop, the school was about to shut down, the pub was in trouble... When we looked at our house the estate agent told us he couldn't give away house in the village just a few years ago yet now it's a thriving little village. There are only a few hundred houses but there's a village shop and pub and a good bus service (every hour). The difference is that families moved into the village because they didn't want to live in the sprawling metropolis' that were being built. There's a really good sense of community too that isn't found in surrounding villages.

It's frequently a topic of conversation as to why our little village should be any different from the next one and the general consensus is that we have all but been abandoned by the council. If we want something we have to fight them tooth and nail to get it which only adds to the sense of community. Most people who live in the village now have had to rebuild their houses almost from scratch too and there is very little chance of getting a builder near the place so people have shared skills and materials, tools, etc.

Because the one thing that the council does properly is uphold the conservation status of the village planning permission for new builds is only granted if the build is in the style of existing property and sits in the footprint of a fallen down building. Who knows what will happen in the future when the need to build more and more houses pushes the towns further into the countryside. I envisage that one day we'll be the perceived scar in the middle of a new build estate.

The next village to us is not a conservation village, although it is arguably of more historical significance than ours. The result is that approval has been given to build the worst set of boxes I have ever seen. I really feel for the people who have to look out of their windows at the huge white squares that have been built on their horizon. For now though I'll console myself that it's very unlikely anything will be built directly in front of us...what with the landowner having several hundred wealthy people trapsing across it almost daily to shoot rabbits and the suchlike.

Interestingly there's a new build at the entrance to our village that looks very square and boxy even though it is the same style as the rest...hopefully with the passage of time it will be less so. Perhaps new builds should be notably so and this would preserve the nature of the village more than trying to pretend that they've always been there.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Penners, I tend to agree with you, 'do we need another' was my first thought, but I think it will take its own shape and we could probably do with something aimed specifically at planning issues etc within the small towns and villages.


OOOOOO Nemises, who got the job----------- lucky person. I was tempted, but got a lot on at the moment.

 

[Nemesis]

Ela Palmer, MSc in Historic Conservation, then SAVE Buildings at Risk Officer, latterly Arup Historic Built Environment Consultant.

In her mid twenties and full of enthusiasm.

Oh OK she's a friend too, but I think that things will move onwards and upwards and I do think there is a need for the organisation. It certainly fills a gap.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Good contact then when I re-locate to my old haunt and take up the reins again, re planning issues.

 

[Nemesis]

Yup!

Quite a lot of expertise on the committee too I note.

 

[elm]

We were driving through Newport (Pembs.) the other day, a small and undoubtedly historic town, and within a National Park too. There is a house on the road to the beach which I've always found interesting - it's now shrouded in scaffolding and a window in the gable has already been replaced by the very worst sort of fake georgian upvc. The original windows at the front were still in place when we went past, though one has been broken ..... I'm hoping they're intending to leave them in place, thought maybe they would be obliged to?

Only reference I can find on the web is the following:

"Dear editor - Some of your readers will be among the many who have expressed concern over two developments in Newport: Betws Newydd and Cromlech House.

The town council was not opposed in principle to innovative buildings on an appropriate site, or enhancing traditional buildings.

In both of these matters, the council had concerns which were overruled by the national park planners, and are now permitted developments.

I don't think it is well-known by the public that the town council only has limited legal duties to peruse each plan and advise the national park authority.

The authority has no duty to do more than take account of the council's views.

The council takes its duties very seriously but can't be held to account for the final decisions taken on any planning matter.

Cllr Peter Harwood Chairman, Newport Town Council."

 

[alice]

I notice that Eng. Heritage has published studies and guidelines for coastal towns (my Lowestoft is featured!) and villages this week which discuss maintaining economic health of the towns as a means to encourage regeneration and preservation of individual buildings. It sounds like ASHTAV is doing much the same thing. From what I see is that EH is working from a strategic perspective and ASHTAV is working to encourage change from a tactical, more local level.

As for Flash on websites, one of the classes I teach is on Flash and as much as I enjoy it, it is overused on webpages. Simpler is better, IMHO, and a good content will always trump flashy graphics and technology.

 

[Nemesis]

Yes well - EH needs to start practising what it preaches, but maybe it's all too late. It certainly buggered up at Southport Pleasureland.

I speak with feeling.

Anyone got fifty grand to spare?

http://www.joylandbooks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9235#9235



http://www.savedreamland.co.uk/

 

[Nemesis]

Also - EH is the government's heritage body. You can't call EH up and ask for advice on a planning issue.

ASHTAV's role, as I understand it, is to be a networking and advice organisation, with possibly a future as a pressure group.