simples

[fluffytail10]

Ok the temperature is beginning to drop, and our walls are already running with water and turning black with mould.

We do all the usual things - keep windows open as much as possible, use extractor fan in kitchen and bathroom and keep the doors closed.

My simple is question is this, would removing the cement render from outside the house(it is totally encased in it, plus plastic double glazing) stop the condensation inside?
thanks
fluff

 

[Schoolmarm]

Is your house warm?

 

[MdB]

Is your house warm?

Can you measure the temperature of the air in the centre of the room and the temperature of the walls?

 

[worms]

Before doing anything drastic, I would invest in a temperature and humidity meter (and possibly a dehumidifier) and start to learn more about how your house works at present.

I now know that, in my house, the internal humidity is too high, particularly through summer and into early winter (although we don't have the mould problems that you have). Once winter starts in earnest, the water content of the cold air outside is lower and once warmed by the heating inside, the relative humidity isn't quite so bad. Once I am routinely running the central heating (Rayburn in kitchen) and woodburner in lounge, the volume of air being drawn through the house is sufficient to bring humidity levels down quite rapidly, even with laundry drying inside. During the periods of high relative humidity when the heating is not on, the dehumidifier makes a big difference, but once the heating has been running for a few weeks, I'd be wasting my time running the dehumidifier as it would, at best, just bring the RH down a bit quicker.

What is the coating on your internal walls?

 

[tobydog]

I totally agree with worms as I have the same situation here. To be honest, we have been here nearly four years and the condensation over the past week or so has been horrendous and the worst we have endured by a long way. Normally I only clear the windows in the mornings this time of year and they generally keep dry for the rest of the day. Recently, at weekend, I've been clearing them 4 times a day and collected almost 1.5 litres from the windows alone. I could have done it more often if I could be bothered.

It's been a very wet summer and the fabric of the house has absorbed a great deal of moisture. I turned the heating on last week when the temperature dropped quite low and effectively turned the house into a sauna. The dehumidifier was going made and slowly over the week the condensation has been managed. It's still there but, as worms says, it will start to go when the cold dry air turns up.

My gadget of the year has to be my new Karcher window vac. Amazing piece of equipment that sucks the glass dry and picks up all the standing water (that's how I knew how much I had collected). Would certainly recommend it but make sure you get the smaller 170mm head if you have small windows.

We don't have visible mould on the brick gypsum rendered walls but I don't know what's going on inside the timber frame panelling. We have just one corner brick wall that runs with water but oddly the area is very precise. It stops going sideways and vertically along very distinct lines. This wall has been chemcially treated before we moved in but has had subsequent failures. One side of the line is like the wall of a shower cubicle and the other is bone dry :? . It's still under the 30 year warranty that runs out next spring so I will get them back for an opinion.

 

[Lime]

It's worth remembering that the lime plaster on the walls does not automatically prevent condensation, although IME it tends to be warmer to the touch than cement and skim.
(Condensation is not the same as damp from the brickwork)

The day before the first cold snap a few days ago I discovered my upstairs dehumidifier had started to leak water all over the landing.
As a consequence the humidity rose (from <40% to >60%) and on the cold morning the next day all the windows in its coverage were dripping.

(The humidifier hadn't broken as I first thought. I discovered a white slimy mould had grown in the water tray directly under the cooling fins inside the unit and this slime had blocked the drain outlet hole!)

That afternoon I cleaned out the dehumidifier, put it back on the landing and started it up again.
The next morning it was just as cold outside but the windows only had a small area of condensation on them and the next day there was none.

 

[fluffytail10]

Thank you for your replies. Our house is cold, we have no heating of any kind upstairs and a woodburner downstairs. Yes we do have a dehumidifier going most of the time and our windows are always covered in water - though if open the water goes by 11ish. I think the walls are just modern plaster over brick, there is a small hole in the plaster where I guess a nail or picture hook once was, and water runs through this hole like a dripping tap. The walls are much worse behind the chest of drawers.

All the rainwater goods have been replaced recently, though the worst wall is the gable end which I guess gets hit by most of the weather.When its really cold we wake up to find the duvet damp and icy!

I have a humidity meter thing, so will see what kind of readings we get.
thanks

 

[JoceAndChris]

You poor thing fluffy! That sounds awful! Usually I think people are to blame because they shower and launder and don't open windows. But in your case it sounds like your poor old house can't cope with the double glazing, and cementitious work, and lack of constant ventilation.

My house is cement rendered and a right old mix of cement and lime plastered walls internally. Not a drop of condensation on the windows nor a speck of mould. We have the open fires burning all the time and draughts galore with the old sashes, the boards over earth, and the various holes. We spend £2,000 - 3,000 a year on oil and electric heating though, and despite that I'm in three jumpers this morning, though, so I'm not going to describe my situation as ideal.

No doubt you've got concrete floors and thick carpets too?

Is there a bedroom fireplace that could be opened up?

Actually your thread should be called "Diffies" not "Simples"! :lol:

 

[Schoolmarm]

Wow! Your house is colder than mine and that takes some doing. Are you getting heating installed?

 

[Flyfisher]

I think the walls are just modern plaster over brick, there is a small hole in the plaster where I guess a nail or picture hook once was, and water runs through this hole like a dripping tap.

I'm no expert, but that sounds like the walls are completely saturated. I'm struggling to believe this could be due to internal condensation due to lack of ventilation.

Are you certain that there's not a roof/guttering problem that's allowing water to get into the top of the walls? One part of our leaky roof had been 'fixed' by nailing boards to the underside of the rafters. The attic space was perfectly dry but any water that got under the tiles (not difficult with poorly fitted pantiles!) ran down the boards onto the top of the walls. :roll:

I'm not suggesting this is the case with your walls, just offering an example of the sort of things that can be inflicted on old houses.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

I really do not remember condensation being such a huge problem as it has been over the past 2/3 years. I have lived in an assortment of very old, listed houses and never experienced anything quite like the 'torrents' of water that we also have to clear from our front windows each day. As we look out to our neighbours thay are all in the same state--- misted right up! Our bathroom wall has a peculiarly shaped soggy damp spot, similar to the one descibed by Lime. we think that as it is a north facing corner wall which catches the wind, it is always cold, and exacerbated by somebody trying to 'deal' with it using some sort of sealant.

So what is different? Well,insulation, sealing up of draughts, placcy windows etc are the obvious culprits, but gone are the days when we ran the heating as, how and when we felt like it, posssibly 24/7 in the winter--the house was dry and we could afford it! Looking at the houses in our area one realises that in the main they belong to people who are out at work all day, so the heating is probably off all day or on timed, presumably washing ,machines etc are operating whilst they are out, so moisture builds up etc etc.

It is actually quite scarey--- mould and damp is not good for kids and elderly--- .

We could debate this subject for ever---- us oldies will hark back to the days of frost patterns on the windows, vests, blankets, and a fashion parade to match that of Joce as she keeps warm in her home! Of one thing I am sure-- as Kids ,we never suffered from ailments and were good and hardy-- so what's gone wrong?

 

[tobydog]

Fluffytail - to wake up to a damp and icy duvet is just plain wrong. Do you plan to install heating in addition to the woodburner any time soon?

I'm no expert but if you are using the dehumidifier regularly, have an effective extractor with overrun in the bathroom, extractor in the kitchen for all hob cooking, don't dry clothes in the house unless in a room with an extractor/dehumidifier, vent any tumble drier air outside (even our condensing type steams up the house!), and regularly open windows (although opening on a damp day might initially clear your windows but cause problems later), fixed all the rainwater goods, then the issue could go back to a common response on PPUK which is the need for adequate heating working alongside constant background ventilation.

Having said that, to have water dripping through a hole in the plaster at picture level suggests penetrating water. Were the rainwater goods replaced because the previous broken items were soaking the gable end wall? Is there anywhere in the outside cement that would still allow rainwater to get in, particularly cracks, old screw holes, etc? It sounds like water may have got into the wall at some time and now can't get out. The internal plaster may have separated from the wall further up causing condesation to form on the inner face of the brick wall which is running down and leaking out through the hole. Sounds extreme but what else could that be?

We have the heating but we don't have the constant background ventilation, particularly upstairs. Short of getting a file / plane and physically making my well fitting windows fit badly (!) I'm somewhat stuck. We have bitumen felt under the thatch but with plasterboard ceilings I'm not sure how much moisture would get into the loft to vent though the thatch if I were to remove the felt.

Have you check the ground conditions around the house? Are the bases of the walls constantly damp or does the cement go down to ground level?

Just some amateur thoughts / ramblings.

 

[MdB]

I think the walls are just modern plaster over brick, there is a small hole in the plaster where I guess a nail or picture hook once was, and water runs through this hole like a dripping tap.

I'm no expert, but that sounds like the walls are completely saturated. I'm struggling to believe this could be due to internal condensation due to lack of ventilation.

So am I. This sounds that there is direct water ingress into the wall somehow.

 

[steveb]

Don't rule out a leaking lead pipe buried in the wall (often these run where you think a water pipe has no business being), or pipe or tank in the loft leaking or dripping as possible contributary causes either

 

[PeterI]

Don't rule out a leaking lead pipe buried in the wall (often these run where you think a water pipe has no business being), or pipe or tank in the loft leaking or dripping as possible contributary causes either

When one of our upstairs neighbours had a leak a few years back that resulted in us having our walls weeping out of a radiator mount. I'd be suspicious if your getting water out of wall that maybe a leak is travelling along a pipe (or perhaps a wire) and dripping off when it hits a wall. Still it was better than our immediate upstairs neighbour who ended up coming back from holiday to a collapsed ceiling.

 

[GRADE_II_MONEYPIT]

I think the walls are just modern plaster over brick, there is a small hole in the plaster where I guess a nail or picture hook once was, and water runs through this hole like a dripping

Pound to a penny you have water ingress from external penetrating through cement render and this is also saturating the walls. I would remove it to elimiate water ingress and render in lime or if brickwork good re-point with lime and limewash.

Mould is caused by condensation not water ingress so again think you have condensation issues as well as water ingress issues.

Ensure good ventallation behind any furniture and never put anything in direct contact with wall (sofa, sideboard etc)

Why not install a heating system? Mould spores can do your health no good.

Hope you solve your issues and photo internally nd externally would help us help you

 

[billybuntus]

Unless you have any obvious ingress of water (sounds very unlikely). Your condensation issue can initially be immediatley improved (vastly) by introducing a dehumidifier (3 litre tank or larger). Run it for at least 12 hours per day and aim for around 50-60% RH (set it to this level).

Set your heating thermostat to a minimum of 14 degrees celsius and leave it 24/7 365 (Trust me on this it will only keep the chill off it won't add significantly to your energy consumption). Once your house is warm and more importantly kept at a constant temperature you will find your living conditions will improve drastically.

Forget the ventilation. A dehumidifier is the answer.

If your still suffering after this let me know and I can help you further.

 

[worms]

Count me in on the side of waterlogged wall rather than condensation per se.

Billybuntus, Fluffytail already has the dehumidifier but has no central heating, so can only partially follow your advice.

Apart from the very coldest parts of the winter, a RH below 60 is not possible for me, and it sounds like fluffy has a level of moisture where the actual RH is academic. I'd want to get behind the wall coatings to find out what is really going on. If you tap the external render with a hammer does it sound as if it has detached from the brick?

 

[plasticpigeon]

Dehumidifiers don't work much in the cold though.

 

[fluffytail10]

mmm yes some of the render sounds very hollow, and there are some very thin cracks in it which my partner painted over dulux weathershield in an effort to stop water getting through. I have also noticed a little hole in the ceiling where the telephone wires come in, so maybe damp is in the attic and coming in through there.

To be honest, I hate the render. I had a house historian round the other day and she said it made the house look like a modern box, I would love to be able to see the brick and flintwork hidden underneath. I am so tempted to accidently thump the the hollow bits with a hammer, but so far can't think of a good reason e.g., I was running along the path holding a lump hammer and just happened to jump up and bang a hole in the wall!